Las Vegas Democratic Debate, Nov. 15

4:58

Ok, 10 minutes to go before the debate. The candidates are in lovely Las Vegas and I'm here in rainy Seattle.

Thursday November 15, 2007 4:58

5:00

This is the second-to-last debate before the all-important Iowa caucuses on Jan. 3. What are we likely to hear tonight? Issue-wise, I predict we'll hear more about drivers licenses for illegal immigrants, the "gender card," Iran, Iraq, and, that perennial Nevada issue, Yucca Mountain.

Thursday November 15, 2007 5:00

5:01

And in terms of tone from the candidates, everyone expects a fight. The gloves came off in the last debate, and with less than two months to go before Iowa, there's no incentive for anyone to go back to playing nice this time.

Thursday November 15, 2007 5:01

5:02

In a departure from previous debates, the candidates are being announced by host Wolf Blitzer and entering one at a time rather than all appearing on stage from the start. First Edwards, then Dodd, then Obama (loudest applause so far), then Clinton (bigger applause than Obama)...

Thursday November 15, 2007 5:02

5:03

...Kucinich (tepid applause), Richardson (modest applause), and, finally, Biden (modest applause and a few whistles).

Thursday November 15, 2007 5:03

5:04

Commenter Blaire suggests I'm hard of hearing:

Thursday November 15, 2007 5:04

5:04

[Comment From blaireblaire: ]

I thought Obama's applaused was louder and more enthusiastic than Clinton's

Thursday November 15, 2007 5:04 blaire

5:05

Perhaps. And Obama appeals to those young voters so Blaire, maybe your hearing's better than mine.

Thursday November 15, 2007 5:05

5:06

[Comment From DogDayDogDay: ]

Does anyone look particularly sweaty, off-color or unfcomfortable? Please describe the gory details.

Thursday November 15, 2007 5:06 DogDay

5:08

To answer DogDay: No dripping sweat as far as I can see. In terms of attire: It's suits, as usual, for all the men and as the CNN analysts talk about "chinks in Clinton's armor" that have opened up since the last debate, I will assure you that she's not wearing armor. Just a pantsuit with a grey jacket and a black blouse.

Thursday November 15, 2007 5:08

5:09

First question goes to Clinton: She's said she wasn't at her best in the last debate. And her candidates have agreed and have accused her of "The Politics of Parsing" (that's from Edwards). How does she respond?

Thursday November 15, 2007 5:09

5:10

Clinton answers with a joke: "This pant-suit is aesbestos tonight."

Thursday November 15, 2007 5:10

5:11

And adds that she's happy to leave the judgments up to the American people. Translation: She's going to try to stay above the fray in this debate, as in previous debates, and not tangle directly with her critics.

Thursday November 15, 2007 5:11

5:11

Obama goes on the attack right from the start. He's pushing the theme that "we need a different kind of politics," and suggesting that Clinton isn't being clear about her positions or straight with voters.

Thursday November 15, 2007 5:11

5:13

Wait a minute. No more above the fray. Clinton hits back, saying Obama talks a lot about stepping up and taking strong positions but that he's behind the curve on healthcare, something she's been a leader on. "We have some big issues ahead of us and we need someone who's tested and ready to lead."

Thursday November 15, 2007 5:13

5:13

Obama: "Well, let's talk about healthcare." Says he has put forward a plan that makes sure that Americans will have the same healthcare as members of Congress.

Thursday November 15, 2007 5:13

5:14

Clinton: "Wolf, I can not let that go unanswered. Senator Obama's plan does not cover everyone... He does not mandate the kind of coverage I do."

Thursday November 15, 2007 5:14

5:14

Clinton: "There is a big difference between Senator Obama and me. He starts from the premise of not achieving universal healthcare."

Thursday November 15, 2007 5:14

5:15

Wow, this is getting heated. A pause for people shouting in the audience to be shushed (or removed).

Thursday November 15, 2007 5:15

5:15

[Comment From EthanEthan: ]

fight..fight..fight...let's go

Thursday November 15, 2007 5:15 Ethan

5:15

[Comment From GabrielGabriel: ]

Pure chaos!

Thursday November 15, 2007 5:15 Gabriel

5:15

[Comment From GabrielGabriel: ]

Obama seemed really thrown by the shouting.

Thursday November 15, 2007 5:15 Gabriel

5:16

Edwards gets the mic: Presses his "politics of parsing" line of attack. Goes through a list of issues on which he says Clinton has been on both sides, ending with his critique of her willingness to take money from lobbyists.

Thursday November 15, 2007 5:16

5:17

Clinton: "Well, Wolf, I've just been personally attacked again..."

Thursday November 15, 2007 5:17

5:17

Edwards: "Really?"

Thursday November 15, 2007 5:17

5:18

Clinton: "When someone starts throwing mud, at least we can hope it's accurate and not straight out of the Republican playbook." Criticizes Edwards for being behind her on healthcare. Huge applause from the crowd.

Thursday November 15, 2007 5:18

5:18

[Comment From markmark: ]

this is getting nasty

Thursday November 15, 2007 5:18 mark

5:19

Biden gets a moment to speak and... He's the one above the fray! "I'm not criticizing any of the people who are the ones who always get to talk all the time at these things."

Thursday November 15, 2007 5:19

5:20

[Comment From EthanEthan: ]

Rewind 3 years ago when obama was the next great hope. Everyone used to say how "electric" he was when he spoke. Where is it? Clinton's killing him out there. The clock is ticking and he's not throwing punches.

Thursday November 15, 2007 5:20 Ethan

5:21

A question to Edwards about his own flip-flopping: He was for Yucca Mountain before he was against, he was for the Iraq War before he was against. Why isn't if fair for Clinton to change her positions?

Thursday November 15, 2007 5:21

5:21

Edwards says sure, it's fine to evolve over time. But his critique is that Clinton is taking two positions on one issue within the span of, say, a week. His example is the recent Peru trade deal.

Thursday November 15, 2007 5:21

5:22

Edwards: "I think people are entitled to know that they have choices. There's nothing personal about this."

Thursday November 15, 2007 5:22

5:23

Dodd gets a moment to speak, he's quoted saying Edwards is "not the same person I once knew." What did he mean by that?

Thursday November 15, 2007 5:23

5:24

Dodges. Like Biden, tries to stay above the fray. Ladies and gentlemen, the also-rans: The only ones who aren't in a fighting mood tonight. Dodd: "If we waste time on the shrillness of the debate, we lose the American people."

Thursday November 15, 2007 5:24

5:25

Richardson channels Kucinich: "All I want to do is give peace a chance."

Thursday November 15, 2007 5:25

5:25

[Comment From GabrielGabriel: ]

"Give peace a chance"? Ack.

Thursday November 15, 2007 5:25 Gabriel

5:25

[Comment From poxpox: ]

...and a chance at VP.

Thursday November 15, 2007 5:25 pox

5:25

Blitzer asks everyone whether they're ready to support the Democratic nominee no matter who it is. (This is aimed at Edwards, who earlier said he wouldn't support Clinton.)

Thursday November 15, 2007 5:25

5:26

Edwards asks: "Is that a planted question?" (A dig at Clinton, who got busted this week for planting questions on the campaign trail.) Then he says yes, he will support the nominee.

Thursday November 15, 2007 5:26

5:26

And everyone else agrees.

Thursday November 15, 2007 5:26

5:26

[Comment From markmark: ]

ooo low blow to hilary on the planted questions

Thursday November 15, 2007 5:26 mark

5:27

Question: As president, where will you draw the line on benefits to illegal immigrants?

Thursday November 15, 2007 5:27

5:28

Obama: Increase border security, prosecute employers who employ illegal immigrants, and put people on a path to citizenship but only if they start at "the back of the line."

Thursday November 15, 2007 5:28

5:28

Does Obama support the currently hot issue of giving drivers licenses for illegal immigrants?

Thursday November 15, 2007 5:28

5:29

He says he did as a Senator for Illinois. But dodges on the quesiton of whether he does now. Says licenses are not the issue, and immigrants aren't "coming here to go to the In and Out Burger."

Thursday November 15, 2007 5:29

5:30

Obama is pressed on this. He waffles and dodges. He sounds like Clinton from the last debate. This is going to be bad for him.

Thursday November 15, 2007 5:30

5:30

Blitzer says it's a yes or no answer. The crowd applauds.

Thursday November 15, 2007 5:30

5:30

Blitzer asks everyone: Do you support drivers licenses for illegal immigrants?

Thursday November 15, 2007 5:30

5:30

Edwards: No.

Thursday November 15, 2007 5:30

5:31

Dodd: No.

Thursday November 15, 2007 5:31

5:31

Obama: Yes, but... "I am going to fighting for comprehensive immigration reform."

Thursday November 15, 2007 5:31

5:31

Clinton: No.

Thursday November 15, 2007 5:31

5:32

Kucinich: Will not answer the question. But sounds like a yes. "I take exception to the way you frame that question," he says.

Thursday November 15, 2007 5:32

5:33

Richardson: "Yes, and I did it." (In New Mexico, where he's governor.) Will this be the OJ Simpson-esque joke of the night?

Thursday November 15, 2007 5:33

5:33

Biden: No.

Thursday November 15, 2007 5:33

5:34

This round goes to Clinton, who was raked over the coals for not having a straight answer on this in the last debate. Tonight she had a one-word answer: No. And it was Obama (in the company of Kucinich!) who had a weaving, dodgey answer.

Thursday November 15, 2007 5:34

5:34

[Comment From CascadianCascadian: ]

Who gives a shit about licenses for illegal immigrants? Oh my god, they might come here and get jobs that require them to drive? I know that most people hate immigrants and so "No" is the safe answer but really.

Thursday November 15, 2007 5:34 Cascadian

5:35

New topic: Education.

Thursday November 15, 2007 5:35

5:37

But on the last topic...

Thursday November 15, 2007 5:37

5:37

[Comment From GabrielGabriel: ]

Obama mismanaged that driver's license so horribly. He basically just offered to take the hotseat that Clinton has held for the past 1-2 weeks by not giving a straight answer on that.

Thursday November 15, 2007 5:37 Gabriel

5:38

[Comment From CateCate: ]

Seriously. How did he not have a straight answer ready? Did he think it wouldn't be asked??

Thursday November 15, 2007 5:38 Cate

5:39

Back on education: Everyone hates No Child Left Behind; Kucinich has a hard time thinking of an issue on which he disagrees with the teachers unions; Richardson wants to be The Education President (wants to stop disrespecting teachers and give them a minimum wage of $40K/yr, etc.); Clinton supports school-based merit pay ("We need to get more teachers to go into underserved areas")...

Thursday November 15, 2007 5:39

5:40

[Comment From LinLin: ]

Hillary: It takes a village of teachers, and we grade them on the curve.

Thursday November 15, 2007 5:40 Lin

5:42

...Biden dodges on merit pay, but supports "teaching excellence."

Thursday November 15, 2007 5:42

5:43

Question to Biden on Pakistan: What to do about Musharraf? Should we keep giving Pakistan the same amount of US aid?

Thursday November 15, 2007 5:43

5:43

Biden says he's spoken to Biden and has threatened to take away some of the military aid if he won't take off his uniform and step down as head of the Pakistani army.

Thursday November 15, 2007 5:43

5:44

[Comment From EthanEthan: ]

Biden's coming across well with that answer

Thursday November 15, 2007 5:44 Ethan

5:44

[Comment From markmark: ]

what happened to gravel? can you imagine him in this format?

Thursday November 15, 2007 5:44 mark

5:45

What would Richardson do about Pakistan? Is he worried that by cutting off aid to Pakistan its nukes could fall into the hands of bad people?

Thursday November 15, 2007 5:45

5:46

Richardson doesn't quite answer this, but sounds very tough while he's not answering.

Thursday November 15, 2007 5:46

5:46

[Comment From LinLin: ]

Eli- good job- the New York Times' last live blog entry was twenty minutes ago.

Thursday November 15, 2007 5:46 Lin

5:46

Thanks!

Thursday November 15, 2007 5:46

5:47

Is Richardson saying that human rights at times are more important than American national security (in reference to Pakistan)? His answer: Yes.

Thursday November 15, 2007 5:47

5:48

[Comment From markmark: ]

oooooooo "human rights more important than national security" the republicans will eat that up when his if he is the VP candidate

Thursday November 15, 2007 5:48 mark

5:48

Edwards on Pakistan: Wants extremists in Pakistan under control, wants elections to take place, wants the nukes under control. Says Pakistan is the main example of failed American nuclear policy. "This is the living, breathing example of a policy that will not work over the long term." Says as president he will lead a campaign to rid the world of nuclear weapons.

Thursday November 15, 2007 5:48

5:49

Obama is asked whether human rights are more important than American national security. Gets professorial, says the issues are not mutually exclusive.

Thursday November 15, 2007 5:49

5:50

Dodd is asked the same question—whether human rights trump American security interests in the context of Pakistan. Answer: "National security." But finds it ironic that Bush is now lecturing Musharraf on democracy. (Crowd loves that.)

Thursday November 15, 2007 5:50

5:50

[Comment From JezJez: ]

Way to play into the GOP "Obama's too intellectual" frame, Eli.

Thursday November 15, 2007 5:50 Jez

5:51

[Comment From CascadianCascadian: ]

Richardson should have just said that in the long run, ignoring human rights creates more insecurity.

Thursday November 15, 2007 5:51 Cascadian

5:51

Dodd says national security is more important than human rights in Pakistan. Now to Clinton, who says: "I agree with that completely."

Thursday November 15, 2007 5:51

5:52

But she also presses the idea that these two things don't need to be mutually exclusive.

Thursday November 15, 2007 5:52

5:52

[Comment From markmark: ]

Hilary just said what Obama said, but a lot better, and alot more understandable for the general electorate not just college professors and intellectuals

Thursday November 15, 2007 5:52 mark

5:52

Kucinich: "Hello? Hello?"

Thursday November 15, 2007 5:52

5:53

(He was skipped over on that last question. But the debate doesn't stop for him.)

Thursday November 15, 2007 5:53

5:53

[Comment From markmark: ]

was he talking to the UFO's?

Thursday November 15, 2007 5:53 mark

5:53

The spin begins:

Thursday November 15, 2007 5:53

5:53

[Comment From LinLin: ]

New York Times says off camera HRC campaign is putting out press releases that Edwards and Obama aren't for universal health care. In terms of the mechanics of campaigning her people are clearly outpacing everyone.

Thursday November 15, 2007 5:53 Lin

5:54

New question: Is the troop increase (or "surge") working?

Thursday November 15, 2007 5:54

5:55

Richardson: Reminds that he's for getting all troops out as soon as possible, leaving no residual forces behind, and that he's the only one. Would replace them with an all-Muslim, or all-Arab peacekeeping force.

Thursday November 15, 2007 5:55

5:56

Kunich: Troop increase isn't working. "The troop increase is fueling the insurgency." Says he's the only one with a plan to bring the troops home. Wants to cut off funding for the war to force Bush's hand on the issue.

Thursday November 15, 2007 5:56

5:57

Obama: Says American troops are doing a great job, but "the overall strategy has failed... That's why I'm going to bring this war to a close." Says he would bring combat troops out within 16 months and talk to regional enemies in order to stabilize the situation there.

Thursday November 15, 2007 5:57

5:59

Question to Kucinich about the holiday season approaching and Chinese toys being tainted. He blames people who voted for China trade deals.

Thursday November 15, 2007 5:59

6:01

[Comment From EthanEthan: ]

China owns $500 billion of our debt. Talking like this is absurd. We are now 100% joined at the hip.

Thursday November 15, 2007 6:01 Ethan

6:01

[Comment From Mr. PoeMr. Poe: ]

Yeah. The American troops have been doing such a fabulous job, Obama. How does he figure? If you tell me to use your strategy of driving through a brick wall to get to the mall quicker, and I do it, and we die on impact, that doesn't mean that I did a great job in following command but the strategy failed. It means we're both morons who deserved to die. Does that make sense? I'm drunk. Word.

Thursday November 15, 2007 6:01 Mr. Poe

6:01

Edwards: "We will not change this country if simply replace a crowd of corporate Republicans with corporate Democrats."

Thursday November 15, 2007 6:01

6:02

Blitzer assumes he's talking about Clinton, and turns to her next. Asks if Ross Perot was right about NAFTA.

Thursday November 15, 2007 6:02

6:02

She says: "All I can remember about that were a bunch of charts."

Thursday November 15, 2007 6:02

6:02

Clinton continues: Says, as she's said before, that NAFTA did not deliver on what people hoped and promised it would deliver.

Thursday November 15, 2007 6:02

6:03

[Comment From kid icaruskid icarus: ]

Isn't that all anybody remembers about Ross Perot?

Thursday November 15, 2007 6:03 kid icarus

6:03

Was NAFTA a mistake? Clinton: "NAFTA was a mistake in the extent that it did not deliver."

Thursday November 15, 2007 6:03

6:05

Dodd: Continues the bashing of companies that create contaminated toys. (Does anyone think these companies are heroes? No, it's just a good way to huff and puff on TV.)

Thursday November 15, 2007 6:05

6:06

Obama: Says the answer to tainted Chinese toys is tying the safety of their toys to Most Favored Nation trading status.

Thursday November 15, 2007 6:06

6:06

[Comment From EthanEthan: ]

Does anyone want their measuring tape from Home Depot to cost $48.32? then let's all just calm down.

Thursday November 15, 2007 6:06 Ethan

6:06

New topic: The price of oil.

Thursday November 15, 2007 6:06

6:07

A question to Obama: Since his state uses so much nuclear energy, and he doesn't want the waste in his state, where should the waste go? Yucca Mountain?

Thursday November 15, 2007 6:07

6:08

Take a wild guess whether he told the Nevada audience that they'd have to accept Illinois' nuclear waste. (Answer: No.)

Thursday November 15, 2007 6:08

6:08

So where does he send the waste?

Thursday November 15, 2007 6:08

6:09

Criticizes Obama for being defeatist. "Don't assume that we can't do something." Meaning, don't assume we can't figure out how to deal with nuclear waste on site. "We shouldn't be pessimistic about the future of America."

Thursday November 15, 2007 6:09

6:09

Does Wolf Blitzer hate America???

Thursday November 15, 2007 6:09

6:09

Just to be clear, he tells the crowd: "I'm optimistic."

Thursday November 15, 2007 6:09

6:10

Here we go with the pandering to Nevada. Richardson also deesn't like the idea of storing waste in Yucca Mountain.

Thursday November 15, 2007 6:10

6:11

Oops, above, at 6:09, I should have written that Obama criticized Blitzer for being defeatist, not the other way around.

Thursday November 15, 2007 6:11

6:11

Ok, the "gender card."

Thursday November 15, 2007 6:11

6:11

Is Clinton playing "the gender card"?

Thursday November 15, 2007 6:11

6:12

"People are not attacking me because I'm a woman. They're attacking me because I am head." And: "I'm not trying to play the gender card, I'm trying to play the winning card."

Thursday November 15, 2007 6:12

6:13

Questioner asks her what she meant at Wellesley when she referred to the Boys Club. The question is a woman named Campbell. Clinton replies, with a disbelieving tone: "Campbell..."

Thursday November 15, 2007 6:13

6:13

Campbell says: Just curious.

Thursday November 15, 2007 6:13

6:14

That moment will be dissected tomorrow. A female questioner asking Clinton about the "boys club," Clinton giving her a disbelieving answer, and the questioner essentially agreeing that the boys club exists.

Thursday November 15, 2007 6:14

6:15

Do the "boys" on stage agree that Clinton is playing the gender card. Edwards dodges, but says he's trying to point out differences. Then criticizes her for taking money from lobbyists -- and gets booed!

Thursday November 15, 2007 6:15

6:15

Strange. I think, in the context of the question about the boys club, Edwards turning it into an attack on Clinton played very badly with the crowd.

Thursday November 15, 2007 6:15

6:16

[Comment From blaireblaire: ]

Clinton answered the gender card question very well: she was funny, she had poise, she had a bit of that "come on girls, you know what Im talking about" wink

Thursday November 15, 2007 6:16 blaire

6:16

[Comment From KatelynKatelyn: ]

Do it for the old ladies, Hillary.

Thursday November 15, 2007 6:16 Katelyn

6:16

Break. Phew. How about a poll? I can only list six people, sorry Dodd.

Thursday November 15, 2007 6:16

6:16	Who's winning? Biden ( 4% ) Clinton ( 60% ) Edwards ( 4% ) Kucinich ( 4% ) Obama ( 26% ) Richardson ( 2% ) Thursday November 15, 2007 6:16

6:19

And we're back...

Thursday November 15, 2007 6:19

6:19

Some comments from the Slog crowd at the half:

Thursday November 15, 2007 6:19

6:19

[Comment From candicecandice: ]

She delivered the "boys club" a swift kick in the nuts there.

Thursday November 15, 2007 6:19 candice

6:19

[Comment From RyanRyan: ]

this chat app is *fantastic*!

Thursday November 15, 2007 6:19 Ryan

6:19

[Comment From LinLin: ]

I clicked Hillary, but the best candidate will probably make the worst president.

Thursday November 15, 2007 6:19 Lin

6:19

[Comment From CaleCale: ]

They shoulda just called this "Hillary, get used to her" debate. Edwards, why are you doing this to yourself?

Thursday November 15, 2007 6:19 Cale

6:20

[Comment From KlimpoKlimpo: ]

Clinton, mopping. Live Slog, awesome.

Thursday November 15, 2007 6:20 Klimpo

6:21

[Comment From RyanRyan: ]

does anyone really think that any of these people, if elected, will be able to affect any of the change they're advocating? this whole thing is really bad theater.

Thursday November 15, 2007 6:21 Ryan

6:21

[Comment From markmark: ]

Kucinich is that cute little angry pug that you just can't take seriously no matter how hard and loud he barks, which is really really sad

Thursday November 15, 2007 6:21 mark

6:21

[Comment From SarahSarah: ]

You dont have to publish this comment but seriously thank you for doing this. I dont have cable and the other news outlets aren't keeping up. This is fantastic.

Thursday November 15, 2007 6:21 Sarah

6:21

[Comment From LinLin: ]

Why does Richardson keep gabbing about how the solution to Sunni/Shia violence in Iraq is a pan-Arab peacekeeping force (made up of Sunnis and Shias)?

Thursday November 15, 2007 6:21 Lin

6:22

[Comment From KatelynKatelyn: ]

I like how Obama's on first name basis with the other candidates. None of this "Senator this" "Governor that", it's Joe and Bill

Thursday November 15, 2007 6:22 Katelyn

6:22

[Comment From KlimpoKlimpo: ]

Not really, Ryan. Though I think Hillary will be the most rugged person to handle this administrations aftermath. She's sturdy and transitional, hopefully.

Thursday November 15, 2007 6:22 Klimpo

6:22

[Comment From GuestGuest: ]

Richardson and Biden just seem to be gunning for VP

Thursday November 15, 2007 6:22 Guest

6:23

And now we're really back. Time for the second half, which means: Questions from undecided voters!

Thursday November 15, 2007 6:23

6:23

[Comment From FrizzelleFrizzelle: ]

"Undecided voters" are the worst.

Thursday November 15, 2007 6:23 Frizzelle

6:24

The question, from the mother of a three-time Iraq veteran:

Thursday November 15, 2007 6:24

6:25

Her son is still part of the marine reserve, and if Bush starts another war he'll likely be recalled. "Please tell me, how are you going to show your leadership on this issue now?" (How will they stop the rush to war with Iran.)

Thursday November 15, 2007 6:25

6:25

[Comment From blaireblaire: ]

Of course we have the obligatory person who has served in Iraq. I cant wait to see how Limbaugh and O'Reilly smear him

Thursday November 15, 2007 6:25 blaire

6:26

Biden answers: Says we should stop fanning the "winds of war." Also, mentions the recent vote to declare part of the Iranian army a foreign terrorist organization. (An implicit criticism of Clinton.)

Thursday November 15, 2007 6:26

6:27

Blitzer turns to Clinton, who is the only one on the stage who voted for making part of the Iranian army a terrorist organization.

Thursday November 15, 2007 6:27

6:28

She says that vote is not a basis for war with Iran, calls for more diplomacy with Iran, says she would immediately begin negotiations with Iran, and that there is "no basis" for the mother's fear that Clinton's vote gives a green light for war with Iran.

Thursday November 15, 2007 6:28

6:29

But, she says, speaking to the mother's soldier son, he should well know that the Iranians are helping to harm US troops in Iraq, and that she thus stands by her vote about part of the Iranian military being a terrorist organization.

Thursday November 15, 2007 6:29

6:29

[Comment From cedarcedar: ]

right. like hawks won't use the terrorist label to justify military action.

Thursday November 15, 2007 6:29 cedar

6:30

Edwards suggests that the vote on the Iranian military forces is likely to be used as a pretext for war. "We've seen how this plays out..."

Thursday November 15, 2007 6:30

6:31

Obama kind of agrees with Edwards and also says he agrees with "Hillary" (not Sen. Clinton) about aggressive diplomacy.

Thursday November 15, 2007 6:31

6:31

Blitzer makes a good point: Obama skipped that Iran vote.

Thursday November 15, 2007 6:31

6:31

Obama: "That's one of the hazards of running for president."

Thursday November 15, 2007 6:31

6:32

[Comment From FrizzelleFrizzelle: ]

Does anyone else think Obama -- contrary to the conventional line about him -- is really bad on his feet? All rhetoric? And not even good rhetoric?

Thursday November 15, 2007 6:32 Frizzelle

6:33

A question from an undecided voter about military contractors.

Thursday November 15, 2007 6:33

6:33

Richardson says he will get all military contractors out (along with all U.S. soldiers).

Thursday November 15, 2007 6:33

6:33

(Meanwhile, an Obama supporter agrees with Frizzelle.)

Thursday November 15, 2007 6:33

6:34

[Comment From GuestGuest: ]

I'd agree, and I'm a Obama supporter

Thursday November 15, 2007 6:34 Guest

6:34

And more...

Thursday November 15, 2007 6:34

6:34

[Comment From OrlaOrla: ]

yes re:Obama. Especially the Nuclear question.

Thursday November 15, 2007 6:34 Orla

6:34

[Comment From el ganadorel ganador: ]

Frizzelle, I agree - obama is only on when he's on a speechifyin' roll -in anevent like this he's stuttery and nonspecific

Thursday November 15, 2007 6:34 el ganador

6:34

[Comment From RyanRyan: ]

Andrew Sullivan's take on Obama in this month's Atlantic was pretty interesting. Said he was at best, "an inconsistent campaigner". In a word, he's moody.

Thursday November 15, 2007 6:34 Ryan

6:35

[Comment From FrizzelleFrizzelle: ]

That's exactly it -- stuttery and nonspecific.

Thursday November 15, 2007 6:35 Frizzelle

6:35

A question about racial profiling and the Patriot Act.

Thursday November 15, 2007 6:35

6:35

Shocker: Edwards is against both.

Thursday November 15, 2007 6:35

6:36

Blitzer points out that Kucinich is only one on stage who voted against the Patriot Act. "That's because I read it," he replies. (Cheers.)

Thursday November 15, 2007 6:36

6:37

[Comment From markmark: ]

If Kucinich looked like Edwards would he be the next 2 term president?

Thursday November 15, 2007 6:37 mark

6:38

Kucinich almost starts leading a chant: "Impeach them now!"

Thursday November 15, 2007 6:38

6:38

Biden lectures Kucinich, looms over him (they're now all seated) and says the Patriot doesn't allow racial profiling, and that it's in fact illegal.

Thursday November 15, 2007 6:38

6:39

New question, this one about immigration: Why are people like Lou Dobbs (and Tancredo) linking terrorism to immigration? Are they even linked issues?

Thursday November 15, 2007 6:39

6:40

Richardson gets the question, but first turns to Kucinich with a good point about Kucinich's criticisms about the way everyone else on stage has voted in Congress: "Stop including me in these votes," Richardson says. "I'm a governor."

Thursday November 15, 2007 6:40

6:40

[Comment From EthanEthan: ]

Just one time, i want them to cut away to someone in the crowd and it's like the San Diego chicken or something.

Thursday November 15, 2007 6:40 Ethan

6:41

Also, Richardson doesn't like the demonizing of illegal immigrants.

Thursday November 15, 2007 6:41

6:41

Dodd starts speaking spanish.

Thursday November 15, 2007 6:41

6:42

[Comment From FrizzelleFrizzelle: ]

Can someone translate?

Thursday November 15, 2007 6:42 Frizzelle

6:42

[Comment From el ganadorel ganador: ]

He's asking if there is another fly on his hair

Thursday November 15, 2007 6:42 el ganador

6:42

And now a question from a casino worker, a cashier:

Thursday November 15, 2007 6:42

6:44

Longest. Question. Ever.

Thursday November 15, 2007 6:44

6:44

With the baby boomers retiring, the deficit ballooning, etc., etc.,... What are they going to do about social security and medicare?

Thursday November 15, 2007 6:44

6:45

Obama answers the question: Fiscal discipline. Protect benefits. Don't raise the retirment age. Adjust upwards the tax on income for the richest Americans.

Thursday November 15, 2007 6:45

6:46

As fore Medicare: The answer is universal health care, he says.

Thursday November 15, 2007 6:46

6:46

Question to Clinton from Blitzer: Will she raise the tax on those making more than $97K?

Thursday November 15, 2007 6:46

6:47

Clinton: "Well, I'll tell you what I'm for..."

Thursday November 15, 2007 6:47

6:47

Dodges, harkens back to balanced budgets of the (Bill) Clinton years, says the answer is fiscal responsibility.

Thursday November 15, 2007 6:47

6:47

Eventually says no on the tax increase.

Thursday November 15, 2007 6:47

6:48

[Comment From el ganadorel ganador: ]

Clinton: my hubby was great! remeber that surplus?!

Thursday November 15, 2007 6:48 el ganador

6:48

[Comment From KevinKevin: ]

She can't just answer a question. It's not how the clintons operate.

Thursday November 15, 2007 6:48 Kevin

6:48

Obama jumps in: "Understand that only six percent of Americans make more than $97K a year... This is the kind of thing I would expect from Mitt Romney or Rudy Giuliani."

Thursday November 15, 2007 6:48

6:48

Did anyone else catch the death-stare Clinton gave him for that?

Thursday November 15, 2007 6:48

6:49

Clinton: "First of all..."

Thursday November 15, 2007 6:49

6:50

She gets calm, cool. Says the numbers in the tax are "staggering."

Thursday November 15, 2007 6:50

6:50

Do Obama and Clinton both want this to be seen as a two-way race? Sure seems like it. They're mainly tangling with each other, with Edwards trying to push his way into the fight but mostly failing.

Thursday November 15, 2007 6:50

6:52

A friend who's watching with me has a complaint: He says whenever Obama makes a good point CNN cuts to black people in the audience cheering like crazy. Haven't seen it myself, but I'm busy looking at my computer half the time.

Thursday November 15, 2007 6:52

6:52

[Comment From el ganadorel ganador: ]

with the UAW Iowa endorsement for Obama today, and this debate tonight, it seems like it's a two way race starting......now!

Thursday November 15, 2007 6:52 el ganador

6:52

[Comment From EthanEthan: ]

i wish it was a fight at all. looks like a cake walk to me. clinton v. rudy. new york new york.

Thursday November 15, 2007 6:52 Ethan

6:52

[Comment From blaireblaire: ]

Re: the poll: I wanted to point out that in the last 20 minutes or so Obama's have gone up, while Clinton's have gone down. It seems to have been a change of about 10%

Thursday November 15, 2007 6:52 blaire

6:53

[Comment From candicecandice: ]

True...but they do the same to Hillary and women. tsk tsk tsk.

Thursday November 15, 2007 6:53 candice

6:53

Re: the camera cuts:

Thursday November 15, 2007 6:53

6:53

[Comment From candicecandice: ]

True...but they do the same to Hillary and women. tsk tsk tsk.

Thursday November 15, 2007 6:53 candice

6:53

And:

Thursday November 15, 2007 6:53

6:53

[Comment From el ganadorel ganador: ]

huh. whenever I make a good point the camera cuts to my boyfriend giving me head.

Thursday November 15, 2007 6:53 el ganador

6:53

[Comment From PricePrice: ]

Do they do it with Kucinich and nerds?

Thursday November 15, 2007 6:53 Price

6:53

Another question from an undecided voter:

Thursday November 15, 2007 6:53

6:54

What qualities will people look for in Supreme Court nominees? (And CNN reporter adds: Will they require that SC nominee supports abortion rights?)

Thursday November 15, 2007 6:54

6:55

Dodd: He doesn't agree in "litmus tests." But he's pro-choice.

Thursday November 15, 2007 6:55

6:55

[Comment From KeithKeith: ]

new poll...new poll...

Thursday November 15, 2007 6:55 Keith

6:55

Keith: Never fear, I will post a new poll right after the debate ends.

Thursday November 15, 2007 6:55

6:57

Biden: Won't endorse anyone SC nominee who doesn't recognize a right to privacy.

Thursday November 15, 2007 6:57

6:58

Richardson: Will ask whether they believe Roe v. Wade is settled law, and whether they believe in a right to privacy, and some other things. Wrong answer? No appointent.

Thursday November 15, 2007 6:58

6:58

Kucinich: He will have a litmus test on abortion.

Thursday November 15, 2007 6:58

6:59

Clinton: Any nominee will have to share her view on policy. "And I think that goes hand in hand." (With a right to abortion, I'm left to assume.)

Thursday November 15, 2007 6:59

6:59

(Closing the current poll now, people. But will post a new one right after the debate ends.)

Thursday November 15, 2007 6:59

7:00

Obama: Would not appoint someone to SC who opposes abortion.

Thursday November 15, 2007 7:00

7:01

Edwards: Would require SC appointees to recognize a right to privacy.

Thursday November 15, 2007 7:01

7:01

[Comment From SpencerSpencer: ]

I like Biden, Richardson, and Kucinich's answers. Why dance around with the no litmus test line? Who does that fool/buy a vote from?

Thursday November 15, 2007 7:01 Spencer

7:01

Another audience question (doesn't this thing end at 7???)

Thursday November 15, 2007 7:01

7:02

Question is: How will they, if they win, unite a divided country?

Thursday November 15, 2007 7:02

7:02

Obama: Well, he thinks he could do it better than Clinton.

Thursday November 15, 2007 7:02

7:03

[Comment From blaireblaire: ]

This question is practically right out of Obama's stump speeches

Thursday November 15, 2007 7:03 blaire

7:03

Totally right, Blaire. Cue the "plant" hunters.

Thursday November 15, 2007 7:03

7:03

Obama is taking Clinton's talking points here, almost verbatim.

Thursday November 15, 2007 7:03

7:04

The idea of telling the world, "America's back." I think she said that in several debates already, and on the stump.

Thursday November 15, 2007 7:04

7:04

Blitzer to Clinton: Are you too polarizing to heal the country?

Thursday November 15, 2007 7:04

7:05

Clinton, of course, thinks she could heal the country, and points to her success in NY state winning votes from Republicans and Democrats. But, also: "We're not going to wake up the day after the election, and not believe what we believe." But, she will work to help people find common ground. This is a pretty good answer from Clinton, one of her stronger answers of the night in terms of delivery.

Thursday November 15, 2007 7:05

7:06

Spencer corrects:

Thursday November 15, 2007 7:06

7:06

[Comment From SpencerSpencer: ]

Obama has an ad called "America's back".

Thursday November 15, 2007 7:06 Spencer

7:06

[Comment From el ganadorel ganador: ]

I'm layin' it out there right now that our ticket is going to be Clinton/Obama.They we re singing the same song there....

Thursday November 15, 2007 7:06 el ganador

7:07

How did we get on foreign policy from a question about healing the political divide in America?

Thursday November 15, 2007 7:07

7:08

Anyway, Richardson is for talking to Syria and is for a two-state solution for Israel and the Palestinians.

Thursday November 15, 2007 7:08

7:08

Another question from the audience:

Thursday November 15, 2007 7:08

7:08

For Senator of Clinton, a "fun" question: Does she prefer diamonds or pearls.

Thursday November 15, 2007 7:08

7:08

Clinton: "I know I'm sometimes accused of not being able to make a choice—I want both."

Thursday November 15, 2007 7:08

7:09

[Comment From el ganadorel ganador: ]

I HATE THAT QUESTION!!!!

Thursday November 15, 2007 7:09 el ganador

7:09

[Comment From blaireblaire: ]

Diamonds or pearls? WTF

Thursday November 15, 2007 7:09 blaire

7:09

[Comment From candicecandice: ]

WTF was that?

Thursday November 15, 2007 7:09 candice

7:09

[Comment From tsmtsm: ]

Is that her "boxers or briefs" ?

Thursday November 15, 2007 7:09 tsm

7:09

I cannot explain (nor condone) that last question, people. Sorry.

Thursday November 15, 2007 7:09

7:09

[Comment From princeprince: ]

That was a question for Prince, 15 years ago.

Thursday November 15, 2007 7:09 prince

7:09

Very true. Very true.

Thursday November 15, 2007 7:09

7:10

Ok, it's over, let me set up the final poll, one sec.

Thursday November 15, 2007 7:10

7:10

[Comment From candicecandice: ]

Eli-This liveblog system was excellent, gracias.

Thursday November 15, 2007 7:10 candice

7:11

Ok, final poll, here we go:

Thursday November 15, 2007 7:11

7:11	Who won? Biden ( 0% ) Clinton ( 49% ) Edwards ( 8% ) Kucinich ( 14% ) Obama ( 27% ) Richardson ( 2% ) Thursday November 15, 2007 7:11

7:15

Meanwhile, my take: I think Clinton did very well. The pundit class was looking to see whether she would "stumble" again, and she didn't. She was very forceful in the beginning in parrying and pushing back attacks. Edwards and Obama no doubt fired up their supporters by getting tougher on Clinton, but I don't know that they scored any points that will pull Clinton supporters toward them.

Thursday November 15, 2007 7:15

7:16

Although:

Thursday November 15, 2007 7:16

7:16

[Comment From KevinKevin: ]

Hilary set this one up by telling the media she underperformed in the last one, thus lowering the bar a bit. She knows how to play this game. I'm not convinced that's a quality that will make her a good president, though.

Thursday November 15, 2007 7:16 Kevin

7:17

Meanwhile, my hands! My hands! Look at these poor hands! They hurt.

Thursday November 15, 2007 7:17

7:19

Well, maybe not. I thought I could add a photo but... Maybe next time.

Thursday November 15, 2007 7:19

7:19

Ok, poll is closing...

Thursday November 15, 2007 7:19

7:20

now.