Viewer - The Disappearing DUI: A conversation with East Lansing and Ann Arbor police officers

The Disappearing DUI: A conversation wit...

Wednesday September 12, 2012

11:57

Jen Eyer:

Welcome everyone! We'll get right started here.

Wednesday September 12, 2012 11:57 Jen Eyer

11:58

John Barnes:

Hello all!

Wednesday September 12, 2012 11:58 John Barnes

11:59

John Barnes:

Thanks all for attending today's live chat.

Wednesday September 12, 2012 11:59 John Barnes

11:59

John Barnes:

We're hear to discuss this week's Disappearing DUI series.

Wednesday September 12, 2012 11:59 John Barnes

12:01

Officer Bove:

Hello everyone

Wednesday September 12, 2012 12:01 Officer Bove

12:01

Deputy Chief Bazick:

Hello everyone. I'm Greg Bazick, Deputy Chief at the Ann Arbor Police Department. I'll be participating today in this forum along with my colleague from East Lansing PD.

Wednesday September 12, 2012 12:01 Deputy Chief Bazick

12:01

Jen Eyer:

We have Officer Bove from the East Lansing police dept. with us, and Ann Arbor deputy chief Greg Bazick.

Wednesday September 12, 2012 12:01 Jen Eyer

12:01

John Barnes:

MLive obtained information from a state police database on more than 275,000 DUI arrests. From there we were able to determine arrest rates per officer, using manpower numbers for more than 500 police agencies.

We also created a database comparing new cases in more than 100 court jurisdictions to the driving age population.

Wednesday September 12, 2012 12:01 John Barnes

12:02

John Barnes:

There were a number of findings. One was how uneven DUI enforcement is across the state.

Wednesday September 12, 2012 12:02 John Barnes

12:03

John Barnes:

Officer Bove, you 111 arrests last year - more than many larger cities. How does that happen?

Wednesday September 12, 2012 12:03 John Barnes

12:04

Jen Eyer:

We got this question from a reader, who was interested in the fact that Bove had more DUI arrests last year than the entire Ann Arbor force combined: Everyone would like to know more about how Officer Bove operates. That information was exactly what was left out of this article in order to paint the picture exactly the way you interpreted it. Seems like an almost intentional omission, no discussion about what he considers to be cause to make a stop, or what percentage of those that he stops are dui. I call it incomplete and irresponsible reporting. You may be right, that he might be abusing the system, or I think he may be saving innocent lives. Until people have had loved ones crippled or killed, the liberal attitude driven freedom to entertain oneself with these addictions seems to be more important than anything.

Wednesday September 12, 2012 12:04 Jen Eyer

12:05

Jen Eyer:

While Officer Bove is typing, I'll post another question.

Wednesday September 12, 2012 12:05 Jen Eyer

12:05

[Comment From GuestGuest: ]

It's an interesting question. What do you think the main contributing factors are and do you think the leniency of laws on marjianna in Ann Arbor are one of the factors. Kinda of a thought process of we can do this legally so we don't drink and drive.

Wednesday September 12, 2012 12:05 Guest

12:06

[Comment From Maxwell Lazaroff, SalineMaxwell Lazaroff, Saline: ]

Is that database publicly available?

Wednesday September 12, 2012 12:06 Maxwell Lazaroff, Saline

12:07

John Barnes:

Yes it is Max. Here's a link. http://www.mlive.com/news/index.ssf/2012/09/the_disappearing_dui_see_how_p.html

Wednesday September 12, 2012 12:07 John Barnes

12:08

Deputy Chief Bazick:

I don't think there is any correlation between marijuana laws, their enforcement and DUI enforcement.

Wednesday September 12, 2012 12:08 Deputy Chief Bazick

12:08

John Barnes:

You can find information on arrests by more than 500 agencies.

Wednesday September 12, 2012 12:08 John Barnes

12:08

[Comment From Maxwell Lazaroff, SalineMaxwell Lazaroff, Saline: ]

Thank you!

Wednesday September 12, 2012 12:08 Maxwell Lazaroff, Saline

12:08

Officer Bove:

I wouldnt say there is anything I do different then any other police officer, as a general patrol officer, I am looking for traffic stops, when I am not on a dispatched call. When a stop is made for speed, improper lane use or any other traffic violations, I make contact with the driver and some have been drinking.

Wednesday September 12, 2012 12:08 Officer Bove

12:09

Deputy Chief Bazick:

For the readers...I'm not a speed-typer so please be patient as you await a response from me.

Wednesday September 12, 2012 12:09 Deputy Chief Bazick

12:10

Officer Bove:

I am in the same boat as the Deputy Chief

Wednesday September 12, 2012 12:10 Officer Bove

12:10

Jen Eyer:

Here's another reader question for Officer Bove: On another note, I'd like to know more about E Lansing Officer Travis Bove. Has he lost a loved one to drunk driving? Is he a young hard-charger making a name for himself and lots of overtime $$$$, or is he a veteran closing in on his retirement who is upping his average last xxx year's pay to boost his yearly retirement pension amount?
Betcha he pulls in well in excess of $100,000 per year in salary/overtime/court time.

Wednesday September 12, 2012 12:10 Jen Eyer

12:12

John Barnes:

Chief Bazick: Your department had about 100 arrests last year, compared to about 600 in East Lansing. Why do you think there is such a wide disparity?

Wednesday September 12, 2012 12:12 John Barnes

12:14

Officer Bove:

My uncle was killed by a drunk driver when he was 18 years old, well before I was born. I dont carry that with anything I do at work. I have been a police officer for seven years. The money aspect as far as overtime has nothing to do with work. There are overtime shifts for OWI enforcement however that can go to any officer.

Wednesday September 12, 2012 12:14 Officer Bove

12:14

[Comment From DaveDave: ]

A nephew of mine was just pulled over (thankfully) while drinking and driving and evidential met the superdrunk criteria (0.19). It was a first offense, but he was able to plead not guilty to that and received a lesser charge. Why was that allowed to happen?I love my nephew, but what's the point of the laws if the courts don't stick to the original charge?

Wednesday September 12, 2012 12:14 Dave

12:14

[Comment From GuestGuest: ]

Officer Bove, How much time do you spend on traffic stops versus responding to calls?

Wednesday September 12, 2012 12:14 Guest

12:15

[Comment From AKAK: ]

Do you use these "speed, improper lane us or any other traffic violations" as an excuse to pull someone over? Just because you may be suspicious?

Wednesday September 12, 2012 12:15 AK

12:16

[Comment From GeoffGeoff: ]

Do you think that the disparity in arrests has anything to do with Ann Arbor's greater walkability? Since student housing is closer to bars/restaurants, maybe it's that people don't drive to them, and then don't try to drive home after they've had too much to drink

Wednesday September 12, 2012 12:16 Geoff

12:17

Deputy Chief Bazick:

I'm not entirely certain, John. Before the article series ran we had not been comparing DUI enforcement statistics with other police departments. My initial thought is that there is a difference in deployment of personnel and because call load is unpredictable from minute to minute more detailed analysis of contributing variables would need to occur to get a clearer picture of what may account for the difference.

Wednesday September 12, 2012 12:17 Deputy Chief Bazick

12:17

Officer Bove:

That all depends on what day of the week it is, time of the year etc... There are nights where I will only make one stop because I am going from dispatched call to dispatched call. Then there are nights where I only have a few dispatched calls and many more traffic stops

Wednesday September 12, 2012 12:17 Officer Bove

12:18

[Comment From MarkMark: ]

Why was the charge reduced for the DUI for the Michigan football player? Not a good message to the community....get drunk....drive...get pulled over....get charges dropped. What a joke!!!

Wednesday September 12, 2012 12:18 Mark

12:18

Jen Eyer:

Mark, which case are you referring to?

Wednesday September 12, 2012 12:18 Jen Eyer

12:18

[Comment From GuestGuest: ]

If a person is parked, car running, not moving can you still get a dui?

Wednesday September 12, 2012 12:18 Guest

12:19

Officer Bove:

Any traffic violation is a reason to pull someone over, these are traffic laws.

Wednesday September 12, 2012 12:19 Officer Bove

12:20

Jen Eyer:

Guest, the officers are discussing your question. It's a complex issue. Hang on.

Wednesday September 12, 2012 12:20 Jen Eyer

12:20

[Comment From StephanieStephanie: ]

I think officers such as Travis Bove should be congratulated. What he did was potentially save the lives of lots of people from those who make a CHOICE to drink and drive. As somebody who works with many victims of drunk driving crashes, I can tell you not one person has been comforted by the fact that the drunk driver didn't mean to harm somebody else. The fact is that drinking and driving is illegal and I salute ANY officer who puts a priority on saving lives!

Wednesday September 12, 2012 12:20 Stephanie

12:21

[Comment From Colleen StoneColleen Stone: ]

Lots of folks point to the walkability of Ann Arbor (which I can attest to), but I wonder if that's really it.

Wednesday September 12, 2012 12:21 Colleen Stone

12:21

[Comment From Superior Twp VoterSuperior Twp Voter: ]

Folks, we're not here to address plea deals/sentencing, etc!

Wednesday September 12, 2012 12:21 Superior Twp Voter

12:21

[Comment From KarlKarl: ]

Office Bove, of your 111 stops what percentage actually met the criteria for a DUI? Also for either officer, why is there a legal limit of .08 if you can still get a ticket for being under that limit?

Wednesday September 12, 2012 12:21 Karl

12:22

[Comment From GeoffGeoff: ]

I think Mark is referring to the Fitz Toussaint case, where the charges were lowered from OWI to OWVI. And the police don't have anything to do with a plea agreement negotiated with the DA.

Wednesday September 12, 2012 12:22 Geoff

12:22

John Barnes:

Walkability may be part of it, but I also found it interesting all of Washtenaw County has a low DUI arrest rate.

Wednesday September 12, 2012 12:22 John Barnes

12:22

[Comment From Superior Twp VoterSuperior Twp Voter: ]

A factor of the disparity that occurs to me is the difference between police patrol areas. i.e. City of ANN ARBOR /UM campus area = friendly to hoofing and congested, versus vicinity of MSU Campus/E Lansing more spread-out and expansive.

Wednesday September 12, 2012 12:22 Superior Twp Voter

12:23

Officer Bove:

All had cause for arrest. all 111 were arrested for OWI. .08 is the legal limit for arrest, it is .08 and above till you get to .17 then it is super drunk driving

Wednesday September 12, 2012 12:23 Officer Bove

12:24

[Comment From MaynardMaynard: ]

The National Motorists Association says impaired driving begins at .12 BAC. Do you believe that the .08 BAC level is appropriately set and reflects real impairment behind the wheel? Or do you think the change from .10 to .08 was politically motivated or aimed at increasing revenue for the state?

Wednesday September 12, 2012 12:24 Maynard

12:24

[Comment From the judgethe judge: ]

do they have any idea how a DUI messes up a poor persons life? living pay check to pay check, it is devastating. DUI used to be 1.5

Wednesday September 12, 2012 12:24 the judge

12:25

Deputy Chief Bazick:

Regarding the question about the parked car scenario...An Officer could arrest depending on the circumstances. The ultimate decision on charging an individual with a crime and furthering it through the criminal justice system lies with a prosecutor or city attorney.

Wednesday September 12, 2012 12:25 Deputy Chief Bazick

12:25

Jen Eyer:

Great questions, folks! I'm funneling them according to topic.

Wednesday September 12, 2012 12:25 Jen Eyer

12:25

John Barnes:

Just another finding for our visitors to chew over: One finding we are seeing statewide is that the percent of ‘super drunks’ is rising. Last year they accounted for 44 percent of driver’s over the 0.08 legal limit. That’s up from 40.5 percent in 2006. One driver this year was a 0.49!

Wednesday September 12, 2012 12:25 John Barnes

12:26

John Barnes:

Here's a list of the 100 drunkest drivers so far this year. http://www.mlive.com/news/index.ssf/2012/09/super_super_drunks_see_where_t_1.html

Wednesday September 12, 2012 12:26 John Barnes

12:26

Officer Bove:

I only enforce what the current law is, we need to show there is impairment. I believe the laws were set in place to keep the public safe not to increase money

Wednesday September 12, 2012 12:26 Officer Bove

12:26

[Comment From BucketBucket: ]

DC Bazick....I would continue not comparing your Department to others, too many variables. Does both colleges (MSU/UOM) have those volunteer driver programs where students can call for rides??

Wednesday September 12, 2012 12:26 Bucket

12:27

[Comment From Colleen StoneColleen Stone: ]

How do you even function, yet alone operate a vehicle at .49??

Wednesday September 12, 2012 12:27 Colleen Stone

12:27

Deputy Chief Bazick:

Geoff, you know more about the case than I do. I would have to review the case report to be able to respond. I do not have access to that information from here at A2.com.

Wednesday September 12, 2012 12:27 Deputy Chief Bazick

12:28

[Comment From GuestGuest: ]

In Jxn there was a officer (pruis) that was obliously caught drunk driving and disorderly. he was let off because of Professional coutisey. Would you let a fellow officer off?

Wednesday September 12, 2012 12:28 Guest

12:28

[Comment From zeebazeeba: ]

I used to know somebody who as a sheriff's deputy. Whenever a group of us went out for the evening, he insisted on driving because he knew that he if got pulled over, other cops would let him go even though he was likely over the limit by a fair margin. What gives?

Wednesday September 12, 2012 12:28 zeeba

12:29

[Comment From ac10awardac10award: ]

In response to "the judge", being crippled or suffering the death of a loved one by a dui is the real definition of devastating. I would rather have the enforcement strict.

Wednesday September 12, 2012 12:29 ac10award

12:29

[Comment From GuestGuest: ]

for "the Judge", do you not think it is more devistating when someone kills another by drunk driving?

Wednesday September 12, 2012 12:29 Guest

12:30

[Comment From Drew BDrew B: ]

I lived in East Lansing for three years. I always found the cops to be pretty abrasive - especially when dealing with students.

Wednesday September 12, 2012 12:30 Drew B

12:30

John Barnes:

Collen: One officer told us about a man with a 0.35 BAC who stopped breathing as he was transported. Lot's more anecdotes in this story. http://www.mlive.com/news/index.ssf/2012/09/super_super_drunks_see_where_t_1.html

Wednesday September 12, 2012 12:30 John Barnes

12:30

Officer Bove:

To the question for Professional courtisey, police officers have to hold them to a higher level, no I would not let a police officer go if I knew they were drinking and driving

Wednesday September 12, 2012 12:30 Officer Bove

12:30

[Comment From Superior Twp VoterSuperior Twp Voter: ]

Off topic for this discussion, but I AGREE with "the judge" and "Maynard" - I firmly believe the penjulum (sp?) has swung too far towards the lower "presumptive influence" level. Our society is now making criminals out of a lot of upstanding citizens with this low threshold. Oh, and I am ALL for nabbing the "super-drunks" as evidenced by Mr. Barnes as above.

Wednesday September 12, 2012 12:30 Superior Twp Voter

12:30

[Comment From Brandon Howell | MLiveBrandon Howell | MLive: ]

Superior Twp voter, excellent observation. We have more on that coming out in a story Friday about campus police DUI enforcement.

Wednesday September 12, 2012 12:30 Brandon Howell | MLive

12:30

[Comment From Dave BrandonDave Brandon: ]

Office Bove, are you a spartan fan?

Wednesday September 12, 2012 12:30 Dave Brandon

12:31

Jen Eyer:

That one is just for fun! But for the record, I am. :)

Wednesday September 12, 2012 12:31 Jen Eyer

12:31

Deputy Chief Bazick:

To Bucket... I'm fairly certain that the University programs do exist for both of our schools. Don't quote me on that as an absolute because those programs are managed directly by the Universities. I would have to make a few calls to verify that.

Wednesday September 12, 2012 12:31 Deputy Chief Bazick

12:31

Officer Bove:

I am a spartan fan, I graduated from MSU

Wednesday September 12, 2012 12:31 Officer Bove

12:31

[Comment From StephanieStephanie: ]

What do either of the officers think of an Ignition Interlock requirement for first time dui offenders?

Wednesday September 12, 2012 12:31 Stephanie

12:32

[Comment From the judgethe judge: ]

.08 is not drunk

Wednesday September 12, 2012 12:32 the judge

12:32

[Comment From BucketBucket: ]

The .08% was a political decision, the Feds forced Michigan to go there or lose Federal funding! Pretty sure there is a sunset provision where in a few years Michigan goes back to .10%. On the Parked car question......There would have to be some showing the vehicle was on a public roadway, private property open to the public, etc. If your wife kicks you out in the cold of winter and your are in your backyard and use your car for heat, that would not be something you could be arrested for.

Wednesday September 12, 2012 12:32 Bucket

12:33

[Comment From backtotheloubacktothelou: ]

Nobody, is questioning the super drunk arrests. We all want them off the street. The questionable part is when some one has a couple and would make it home fine if not for the stop. you said you believe the laws were put there to protect. Do you feel it has gone to for?

Wednesday September 12, 2012 12:33 backtothelou

12:34

[Comment From Drew BDrew B: ]

I am not cool with people driving drunk. What bothers me is pretextual stops, which are not technically allowed, but since there are a million laws on the books an officer can always find some reason to pull someone over. As a law student who strongly believes in the 4th Amendment, I wish officers would respect the Constitution a little more. Get drunk drivers off the road, but pulling over people just because you can is nonsense. If someone truly displays signs of DUI, pull them over, if not, let it be.

Wednesday September 12, 2012 12:34 Drew B

12:34

[Comment From Superior Twp VoterSuperior Twp Voter: ]

Good question, Stephanie! I thnk that if offender is a "super-drunk" then YES, ignition interlock. If no priors, then NO, unnecessary. Going through "the system" once is quite enough for -most- sensible drivers.

Wednesday September 12, 2012 12:34 Superior Twp Voter

12:34

[Comment From Heather MorganHeather Morgan: ]

Well it looks like we've gotten away from with the factors of the report are and that is what I was interested in. I'm satisfied to know it is probably that Ann Arbor is more pedestrian friendly. Thank you for taking the time out for this conversation officers and thank you for all you do in our community!

Wednesday September 12, 2012 12:34 Heather Morgan

12:35

Deputy Chief Bazick:

Stephanie, I think the interlock device or any other "obstacle" that would help a person either change their behavior or make it more difficult to continue behavior that has the possibility to harm the community (DUI in this case) it a positive thing.

Wednesday September 12, 2012 12:35 Deputy Chief Bazick

12:35

John Barnes:

And to Superior, I'm pretty sure ignition interlocks are required for first-time super drinks.

Wednesday September 12, 2012 12:35 John Barnes

12:35

Jen Eyer:

Thanks for joining us Heather! Both officers are currently typing...

Wednesday September 12, 2012 12:35 Jen Eyer

12:35

[Comment From eyehearta2eyehearta2: ]

So, isn't the obvious answer that less people are driving drunk and we should congratulate AA on the fact that all the campaigns are working. If this is not the case, lets not spend money on ad campaigns that don't work.

Wednesday September 12, 2012 12:35 eyehearta2

12:35

[Comment From StephanieStephanie: ]

To the Judge and Superior - there are so many things "poor" people can do to avoid drinking and driving. Would you feel as sympathetic if it was your family who was killed or if you yourself lost a limb or were confined to a wheelchair or independent living facility because somebody got behind the wheel drunk. The facts are that if you drink and then you drive, you run the risk of killing somebody! If the officer pulls you over you obviously doing something incorrectly, whether swerving, or riding the lines, and you got pulled over, so I guess I don't feel sorry for you for the fines, loss of license or your own punishment! You put other people at risk by selfish actions!

Wednesday September 12, 2012 12:35 Stephanie

12:35

Officer Bove:

again, the .08 is set in law, I cant say it went to far. Yes the laws are set in place to protect people on the roadway.

Wednesday September 12, 2012 12:35 Officer Bove

12:37

[Comment From GuestGuest: ]

To save bth of the officers a little typing, the MCL code for OWI arrests of a person passed out behind the wheel say that "A peace officer may arrest a person without a warrant under either of the following circumstances: (Skip the first one, not relevent) 2. The person is found in the driver's seat of a cehicle parked or stopped on a highway or street within this state if any part of the vehicle intrudes into the roadway and the peace officer has reasonable case to believe the person was operating the vehicle in violation of [the Michigan OWI law]" From the 'Michigan Criminal Law And Procedure' textbook.

Wednesday September 12, 2012 12:37 Guest

12:37

[Comment From Heather MorganHeather Morgan: ]

OH one last thing YA! Drunk Driving is down 30% since 2006! Progress is good!

Wednesday September 12, 2012 12:37 Heather Morgan

12:38

[Comment From AnneAnne: ]

Officers - have there been any conversations at your departments regarding the .08 law ending in 2013 due to the sunset clause in Michigan? (we are the only state to have this clause). Will law enforcement organizations (Police Chiefs Assoc., etc.) be helping with the lobbying to keep the current law at .08 (as the rest of the country) and not change by increasing to .10 etc.?

Wednesday September 12, 2012 12:38 Anne

12:39

[Comment From backtotheloubacktothelou: ]

No Stephanie you CANNOT count on doing things correctly to not get pulled over. Not in Jackson any way

Wednesday September 12, 2012 12:39 backtothelou

12:39

[Comment From zeebazeeba: ]

A European Commission study found that drives with a BAC level of 0.12 were less likely to cause an accident than someone going 48 mph in a 36 mph zone (80 km/hr in a 60 km/hr zone). Given that a DUI essentially results in a $10,000 penalty, do you find that cops are increasingly reluctant bring people in for behavior that is no worse than a speeding ticket?

Wednesday September 12, 2012 12:39 zeeba

12:39

John Barnes:

Some online commenters are skeptical that reduced manpower is a significant factor in declining arrests -- down 30 percent statewide since 2006. They believe there are fewer drunken drivers for various reasons. Do you agree manpower is not a significant factor.

Wednesday September 12, 2012 12:39 John Barnes

12:41

[Comment From Mike YMike Y: ]

Do you see fewer casual drinkers getting caught? How can we keep the alcoholics off the road...it seems that many have multiple offenses for OUIL.

Wednesday September 12, 2012 12:41 Mike Y

12:44

[Comment From Drew BDrew B: ]

Officer Bove - laws are also set in place to bring in revenue for state and local municipalities. To deny this would be naive and ignorant. The problem I have is that EL seems dead set on taking as much money as it can from students. Students who are vital to the local economy, yet the municipality wants to take as much money as they can from them - and it's no secret many of them are already short on funds. Seems backwards to me...

Wednesday September 12, 2012 12:44 Drew B

12:44

[Comment From AnneAnne: ]

John Barnes - will MLive be looking into a story on the .08? it currently is a House bill but have heard legislature will probably not get to it in 2012...

Wednesday September 12, 2012 12:44 Anne

12:44

John Barnes:

Here's another finding for readers to chew on: While DUI arrests are headed down, drugged-driving arrests are on the rise. Some of that rise is due to better training for officers.

Wednesday September 12, 2012 12:44 John Barnes

12:44

[Comment From Real AmericanReal American: ]

zeeba, you have to imagine that someone with a .12 alcohol level is more likely to be going 48 in a 36 zone as well.

Wednesday September 12, 2012 12:44 Real American

12:44

[Comment From BucketBucket: ]

No, manpower down is a significant factor. The many other factors have always been there!

Wednesday September 12, 2012 12:44 Bucket

12:44

[Comment From WalterWalter: ]

I was once pulled over at 5am. Was followed for 3 miles.. I asked what in the world did I do wrong. The officer said "nothing" I just thought you were leaving a party. I was heading for my morning coffee & donut and sent me on my way.

Wednesday September 12, 2012 12:44 Walter

12:44

[Comment From GuestGuest: ]

Thats a great question Mike Y. My father in law is an alcoholics and has been arrested and spent time in jail for DUI but all he does is blame the cops and keeps on drinking and driving.

Wednesday September 12, 2012 12:44 Guest

12:45

John Barnes:

Anne: Could you jog my memory with more details of what the bill will do?

Wednesday September 12, 2012 12:45 John Barnes

12:45

[Comment From Superior Twp VoterSuperior Twp Voter: ]

Mr. Barnes I think LEO (law enf officers) manpower -may- be a factor, but I rather believe that society is evolving (for the better!) on the entire DUI issue. On a personal note, I truly despise the current OHSP (Office Highway Safety Planning) campaign of threatening citizens via TV/Radio media. i.e. "Officers are out there watching!" I could go on, but you get my thought.

Wednesday September 12, 2012 12:45 Superior Twp Voter

12:45

[Comment From BucketBucket: ]

Folks: Many people are killed for a number of other violations. Speeding alone, without intoxication, is a major cause. Does the Officer use more discretion in a speeding citation, taking into account that a drunk driver can be driven home, taxi or friend called, and the hazard removed, say for lower levels?

Wednesday September 12, 2012 12:45 Bucket

12:46

Deputy Chief Bazick:

John, regarding manpower...Manpower is a factor but I'm not suggesting that it is the predominant factor in and of itself. In theory, manpower could increase for an agency and in reviewing statistics you could still see a similar trend for a category of reported activity. Deployment of manpower is a significant factor in my experience and often deployment is driven by calls for service that demand priority response. There may be validity to the perspective that there are fewer drunk drivers however I don't know what's been measured to get to that conclusion. Bottom line, there are many factors that play into a change in statistics and some of them may not be obvious or difficult to measure.

Wednesday September 12, 2012 12:46 Deputy Chief Bazick

12:46

[Comment From Kyle FeldscherKyle Feldscher: ]

I'm interested in both Deputy Chief Bazick and Officer Bove's opinion on this: Do you believe there are less drunk drivers on the road in your areas than in past years? Do decreasing numbers reflect decreasing drunk drivers or less drivers being caught?

Wednesday September 12, 2012 12:46 Kyle Feldscher

12:46

Officer Bove:

For zeeba... that is a hard question to answer. Some drivers show impairment more at an .08 then others. Police officers are not out to ruin peoples lives. We are trying to keep the road safe for other drivers and people out on the streets. If we make contact with a driver or I should say I make contact with a driver who has had to much to drink some at an .08 or at a .22 then it is my duty to take them off the street.

Wednesday September 12, 2012 12:46 Officer Bove

12:47

[Comment From backtotheloubacktothelou: ]

Would you agree that officers who manufacture stops, are breaking the law themselves? If that stop results in fines that contribute to poverty of a family is that a good thing in your opinion? Assuming we are not talking about a super drunk of course, but a .08?

Wednesday September 12, 2012 12:47 backtothelou

12:48

John Barnes:

You could be right Superior that there are fewer DUIs on the road. That's just so hard to quantify.

Wednesday September 12, 2012 12:48 John Barnes

12:48

Jen Eyer:

backtothelou: Can you define "manufacture stops?"

Wednesday September 12, 2012 12:48 Jen Eyer

12:48

John Barnes:

DUI crash rates are down, so that's suggestive, but crash rates of most types are declining, largely due to better engineered roads and cars.

Wednesday September 12, 2012 12:48 John Barnes

12:48

[Comment From zeebazeeba: ]

Unreal American - actually, I think drunks tend to drive exactly the speed limit. I believe Officer Bove implied as much in an earlier article.

Wednesday September 12, 2012 12:48 zeeba

12:48

[Comment From AnneAnne: ]

John - keep the law at .08 as it is for the rest of the country

Wednesday September 12, 2012 12:48 Anne

12:48

[Comment From eyehearta2eyehearta2: ]

Which of the two views: "Society evolving", or "lack of manpower" results in more money and job security for police departments? Follow the money.

Wednesday September 12, 2012 12:48 eyehearta2

12:49

[Comment From BucketBucket: ]

I would be interested to see a printout of the BAC for all 111 arrests, a trend may come out of that. The Michigan lawmakers were against lowering our level from .10%, as I mentioned before, there is a sunset provision where we go back up to .10%.

Wednesday September 12, 2012 12:49 Bucket

12:49

[Comment From LionsLions: ]

Do both of you follow ALL driving laws when on duty and off? Always bugs me to see police blatantly breaking the law and then ticketing people for the same offenses. I know police can break driving laws when traveling in emergencies or in the chase or apprehension of violators of the law or of persons charged with or suspected of a violation, but most of the time when I see it, neither seems to be the case. On the same note are police required to have lights flashing when traveling in said conditions when they can break the law?

Wednesday September 12, 2012 12:49 Lions

12:50

Officer Bove:

For Kyle. I think between the ability to find a safe way home, taxi, sober driver etc yes I like to think the numbers are down. We are also dealing with cuts in police officers in michigan which also may play into it. In East Lansing there are over 100 taxis, which alot of people use.

Wednesday September 12, 2012 12:50 Officer Bove

12:50

[Comment From LionsLions: ]

Are police trained to follow/tailgate drivers after 2 am, with the assumption that most drivers on the road that late are under the influence?

Wednesday September 12, 2012 12:50 Lions

12:50

John Barnes:

OK, now I know what you are talking about Anne. It's only my opinion, but I think that's unlikely to get out of committee. Certainly not before the election.

Wednesday September 12, 2012 12:50 John Barnes

12:51

[Comment From Superior Twp VoterSuperior Twp Voter: ]

Due to virtually every police patrol vehicle presently being equipped with both audio and video recording equipment, that is automatically activated, LEO's can no longer give anyone a "break," or a simple short ride home. This part of it, to me, is truly sad. Because we have forced our LEO's to be automatons - yes, robots. They can no longer afford to see "grey", just a violator or a non-violator, so to speak.

Wednesday September 12, 2012 12:51 Superior Twp Voter

12:51

[Comment From Marco del ELMarco del EL: ]

I grew up in EL and now live in AA so my wife handed me the article and I only had the chance to glance at it. What struck me was that one police officer from EL had a significant number of arrests over and above his peers and I believe that it was suggested that he had a special nose for DWI. I must have missed something though. Either he is super or the rest of the department doen't have a nose. What's the deal? Is he a rogue agent?

Wednesday September 12, 2012 12:51 Marco del EL

12:52

Jen Eyer:

Hi Marco: Officer Bove gave us some insight earlier in the chat.

Wednesday September 12, 2012 12:52 Jen Eyer

12:52

John Barnes:

Driving issues are very divisive. For example, distracted driving legislation that would ban cellphone use by novice drivers is hitting strong headwinds.

Wednesday September 12, 2012 12:52 John Barnes

12:52

[Comment From Real AmericanReal American: ]

Zeeba I do not appreciate you making a mockey of my name and adding Un before Real. For I am a TRUE REAL AMERICAN. On another note, I would like to see some data that reflects on how many drivers are speeding when getting a DUI

Wednesday September 12, 2012 12:52 Real American

12:53

[Comment From Drew BDrew B: ]

Bucket - i've taken Administrative Law, and while all of these laws have sunset dates, they hardly ever end when they are supposed to.

Wednesday September 12, 2012 12:53 Drew B

12:53

[Comment From AnneAnne: ]

Overall statistics have not been discussed - close to 10,000 deaths and 350,000 injuries occur nationally due to drunk driving - Michigan over 200 deaths and 6,0000 injuries - still way to high numbers - deaths have gone done significantly but not enought - injuries have gone up due to prevention efforts and better technology/mechanisms in cars i.e. air bags, etc.

Wednesday September 12, 2012 12:53 Anne

12:53

Officer Bove:

Lions... we are not trained to tailgate drivers, in the course of our duties we are on patrol, if the vehicle in the area is showing violations then we have the ability to make a traffic stop

Wednesday September 12, 2012 12:53 Officer Bove

12:53

[Comment From backtotheloubacktothelou: ]

Yes, a stop for not using a blinke when a car following verified the blinkes was used. A legal lane change that was called swerving, or my favorite, a box in the road, going around it was swerving! Last one was me

Wednesday September 12, 2012 12:53 backtothelou

12:53

[Comment From ac10awardac10award: ]

Officers, am I correct in thinking that there is zero possibility of being arrested for a DUI if I have not consumed any alcohol or any other substances?

Wednesday September 12, 2012 12:53 ac10award

12:54

Jen Eyer:

Ac10award: In my expert opinion, yes.

Wednesday September 12, 2012 12:54 Jen Eyer

12:55

[Comment From zeebazeeba: ]

Officer Bove - thank you for your answer about the relative risk of driving with a .012. However, in some of the earlier articles, I believe you were talking about how you've learned to spot fairly subtle signs that a driver may have been drinking. If the signs are subtle, does that person really present a risk high enough to justify a $10k penalty? We all want to keep the roads safe but in Western society we generally frown on making examples of minor offenders.

Wednesday September 12, 2012 12:55 zeeba

12:55

John Barnes:

But to answer your question, Anne, I'd be happy to look into the legislation further.

Wednesday September 12, 2012 12:55 John Barnes

12:56

[Comment From TgilbertTgilbert: ]

Even though the behavior of driving after drinking too much is wrong and people must be responsible for their actions, when will we as a community begin to accept that addiction is a disease that responds to treatment and that recovery is possible for anyone?

Wednesday September 12, 2012 12:56 Tgilbert

12:56

[Comment From StephanieStephanie: ]

AMEN ac10award!

Wednesday September 12, 2012 12:56 Stephanie

12:56

[Comment From AngelAngel: ]

I wonder, for those so concerned with the .08 law, would you be arguing the same if the limit was .10 or .12? At what point do we just accept that research has proven that our decision making, reflexes, and response time are impaired at this point and choose not to drink and drive? Drinking and driving is dangerous, and it is a crime. Lives are lost. How many of us have a few drinks and then test our BAC? How would you know if your BAC was.08 or .10? Better safe than sorry...in my opinion.

Wednesday September 12, 2012 12:56 Angel

12:56

[Comment From Drew BDrew B: ]

Lions - I see officers breaking traffic laws all the time while on patrol, and engage in strange behavior in general. I see them blow threw stop signs, make illegal U-turns, and speed to make it through red lights. If citizens did this in front of an officer they could certainly count on being ticketed. Why do police feel they are above the law? Just because you enforce the law does not give you free range to ignore it.

Wednesday September 12, 2012 12:56 Drew B

12:56

[Comment From AnneAnne: ]

John - I think it would be a worthy story to bring the law change to Michigan residents, or a poll etc., to see where they stand in support/or not...

Wednesday September 12, 2012 12:56 Anne

12:57

[Comment From BucketBucket: ]

Some officers have their "thang", his is OWI which is a dangerous crime. Others like to process crime scenes and spend hours getting fingerprints that arrest criminals. The bigger need is that officers need to balance out all their required duties and the public be served. That is the DC's responsibility.

Wednesday September 12, 2012 12:57 Bucket

12:57

Deputy Chief Bazick:

To Lions...No. We are just people after all. No one follows all the laws all the time. I realize this question is a trap but let's be real. No one is perfect. The question as I interpret it is more along the lines of officers blatantly disregarding the laws because they can. I don't think that is the norm. It is true that officers can disregard traffic laws when responding to emergencies and are required to use emergency lights and sirens in those response but there are provisions to respond without using that equipment when circumstances dictate that. It's a judgement call and an officer needs to be able to articulate the reason for their actions.

Wednesday September 12, 2012 12:57 Deputy Chief Bazick

12:57

[Comment From Drew BDrew B: ]

Officer Bove - why do EL officers and P.A.C.E. (Parking and Code Enforcement) officers seem dead set on nickel and diming MSU students out of every minor violation? I know it's not a high crime area, but many students are broke, and officers seem so eager to hand out speeding tickets, parking tickets, and minor code tickets. Why do you insist on raising revenue from a group that is largely hurting for cash?

Wednesday September 12, 2012 12:57 Drew B

12:58

Jen Eyer:

Folks, we are wrapping up here. Got one more answer coming...

Wednesday September 12, 2012 12:58 Jen Eyer

12:59

Officer Bove:

zeeba: the traffic stop is just a way to make contact with drivers, some drivers are not drunk, some have warrants, drugs, weapons etc. I may not issue a ticket for a minor traffic stop. however if I make contact with a driver and they drunk then it goes from there.

Wednesday September 12, 2012 12:59 Officer Bove

12:59

[Comment From GuestGuest: ]

To both Bove and Bazick, thank you for your service to our communities. I am all for keeping the drunks off the roads so keep it up, especially the drunks like "the judge" who want the limit raised to .15.

Wednesday September 12, 2012 12:59 Guest

12:59

[Comment From LansingBabeLansingBabe: ]

Big thanks to both departments for getting drunk drivers off the streets!! Your hard work is appreciated and respected.

Wednesday September 12, 2012 12:59 LansingBabe

12:59

[Comment From GuestGuest: ]

thanks officers

Wednesday September 12, 2012 12:59 Guest

12:59

[Comment From Superior Twp VoterSuperior Twp Voter: ]

Thank you. Interesting session!

Wednesday September 12, 2012 12:59 Superior Twp Voter

12:59

[Comment From KRKR: ]

Just stopped in, but thanks for your time officers

Wednesday September 12, 2012 12:59 KR

1:00

[Comment From Marco del ELMarco del EL: ]

Clear as mud

Wednesday September 12, 2012 1:00 Marco del EL

1:00

Officer Bove:

Thanks everyone

Wednesday September 12, 2012 1:00 Officer Bove

1:00

John Barnes:

Thanks everyone for joining us today. Officer Bove, Chief Bazick, we really appreciate your help with this,

Wednesday September 12, 2012 1:00 John Barnes

1:00

[Comment From ac10awardac10award: ]

thank you officers

Wednesday September 12, 2012 1:00 ac10award

1:00

[Comment From GuestGuest: ]

Appreciate you two spending time answering these questions, be safe.

Wednesday September 12, 2012 1:00 Guest

1:00

[Comment From StephanieStephanie: ]

Thank you for getting drunks off the road!

Wednesday September 12, 2012 1:00 Stephanie

1:01

Deputy Chief Bazick:

Thank you to A2.com for facilitating this forum. Thank you to the readers who have been patient with the speed of our responses. Good questions! Have a great day.

Wednesday September 12, 2012 1:01 Deputy Chief Bazick

1:01

Jen Eyer:

This chat will be archived on this page. Thanks everyone for participating!

Wednesday September 12, 2012 1:01 Jen Eyer

1:01

[Comment From AngelAngel: ]

Thanks officers!

Wednesday September 12, 2012 1:01 Angel

1:01

[Comment From GuestGuest: ]

You too Greg.