Dr. Val Lambros on aging eyes and Barbar...
 
11:55
Colin Stewart: 
We're setting up in preparation for start of the chat at noon.
Wednesday November 4, 2009 11:55 Colin Stewart
12:02
Colin Stewart: 
Dr. Lambros will be joining us in a minute.
Wednesday November 4, 2009 12:02 Colin Stewart
12:07
Colin Stewart: 
Working through technical problems ...
Wednesday November 4, 2009 12:07 Colin Stewart
12:07
[Comment From VAL LAMBROSVAL LAMBROS: ] 
Hia all
Wednesday November 4, 2009 12:07 VAL LAMBROS
12:08
Expand
Wednesday November 4, 2009 12:08 
12:08
Colin Stewart: 

Welcome to "In Your Face CHAT."   I'm Colin Stewart of the cosmetic-medicine blog "In Your Face."

 

 

Our guest today is plastic surgeon

Dr. Val Lambros  of Newport Beach.

 

Welcome, Dr. Lambros.

Wednesday November 4, 2009 12:08 Colin Stewart
12:08
Wednesday November 4, 2009 12:08 
12:09
Colin Stewart: 
There you are!
Wednesday November 4, 2009 12:09 Colin Stewart
12:09
Colin Stewart: 
Readers' questions about cosmetic medicine are welcome at any point. As we discuss today's scheduled topics during the first portion of this chat, I'll hold onto your questions and ask them to Dr. Lambros later in this session. (So please be patient, but don't delay asking.)
Wednesday November 4, 2009 12:09 Colin Stewart
12:09
VAL LAMBROS: 
does that picture make me look fat?
Wednesday November 4, 2009 12:09 VAL LAMBROS
12:09
Colin Stewart: 
Since I haven't seen you in person, I don't know really. It makes you look like a guy.
Wednesday November 4, 2009 12:09 Colin Stewart
12:10
Colin Stewart: 

I'd like to start our chat with an unplanned topic. It's the breaking news that Johnson & Johnson has pulled its new filler Evolence off the market.

 

A year ago, Evolence was just reaching the market and was supposed to be strong challenger to Restylane and Juvederm. J&J is huge, so smaller companies such as Irvine-based Allergan, which makes Juvederm, were thought to be vulnerable to a J&J powerful marketing effort.

 

That never happened.

 

 

What have you heard or experienced regarding Evolence?

Wednesday November 4, 2009 12:10 Colin Stewart
12:10
Colin Stewart: 
Evolence injection
Wednesday November 4, 2009 12:10 Colin Stewart
12:11
VAL LAMBROS: 
Evolence has had a lot of good press among injectors that I know. I was just a a big plastic surgery meetin in Seattle where they were activily promoting the product ...
Wednesday November 4, 2009 12:11 VAL LAMBROS
12:11
VAL LAMBROS: 
I just talked to the company today and the told me that sales had not met expectations so they are dropping the product...
Wednesday November 4, 2009 12:11 VAL LAMBROS
12:12
Colin Stewart: 
Did you ever use it, or see a need for it?
Wednesday November 4, 2009 12:12 Colin Stewart
12:12
VAL LAMBROS: 
apparently according to the company there not problems or adverse reactions
Wednesday November 4, 2009 12:12 VAL LAMBROS
12:12
VAL LAMBROS: 
No I never used it because other fillers work just as well in my experience
Wednesday November 4, 2009 12:12 VAL LAMBROS
12:13
Colin Stewart: 

Let's start our discussion of TV journalist Barbara Walters. She's 80 years old as of Sept. 25, but she doesn't look 80. In part, that's because of a facelift.

 


Wednesday November 4, 2009 12:13 Colin Stewart
12:13
Colin Stewart: 
barbara-walters-450w-072309-ap090723023025
Wednesday November 4, 2009 12:13 Colin Stewart
12:13
Colin Stewart: 

What do you see in this post-facelift photo of Barbara Walters?

 

 

Readers' comments are welcome.

 

Wednesday November 4, 2009 12:13 Colin Stewart
12:14
VAL LAMBROS: 
She has probably had more than one. Your can see in a progression of pictures where her cheeks look more hollow and bony, this is from her facelifts
Wednesday November 4, 2009 12:14 VAL LAMBROS
12:14
Colin Stewart: 

How would you rate the facelift?

Wednesday November 4, 2009 12:14 Colin Stewart
12:14
VAL LAMBROS: 
Facelift by themselve solve certain problems of the face but they can accentuate other aspects
Wednesday November 4, 2009 12:14 VAL LAMBROS
12:15
VAL LAMBROS: 
and as traditional facelift it was probably fine but a traditional facelift doesn't solve all problems and she needs to be filled
Wednesday November 4, 2009 12:15 VAL LAMBROS
12:15
Colin Stewart: 
barbara-walters-4540w-041207-ap070412034566
Wednesday November 4, 2009 12:15 Colin Stewart
12:15
Colin Stewart: 
Filled?
Wednesday November 4, 2009 12:15 Colin Stewart
12:15
VAL LAMBROS: 
the particular deformity is sometimes called a joker line, you can fix problems like this by filling in parts of the face
Wednesday November 4, 2009 12:15 VAL LAMBROS
12:16
VAL LAMBROS: 
think of this situation of a localized hollow of the face by filling in the hollow you make the face look more natural and less pulled
Wednesday November 4, 2009 12:16 VAL LAMBROS
12:17
Colin Stewart: 
The "Joker" line goes from mouth to ears, right?   It's like a trough.
Wednesday November 4, 2009 12:17 Colin Stewart
12:17
Colin Stewart: 
... a trough where the skin was pulled tight.
Wednesday November 4, 2009 12:17 Colin Stewart
12:17
VAL LAMBROS: 
think of the joker from the batman movies. it is a little shadow that goes from the corner of the mouth to the ears. there are certain people who are more ispposed to that than others
Wednesday November 4, 2009 12:17 VAL LAMBROS
12:18
Colin Stewart: 
more what?
Wednesday November 4, 2009 12:18 Colin Stewart
12:18
VAL LAMBROS: 
it is a classic sign ot an unnatural facelift
Wednesday November 4, 2009 12:18 VAL LAMBROS
12:18
VAL LAMBROS: 
who are more likely to get it
Wednesday November 4, 2009 12:18 VAL LAMBROS
12:19
Colin Stewart: 
You use filler to fix that? what type?
Wednesday November 4, 2009 12:19 Colin Stewart
12:20
VAL LAMBROS: 
If i am doing a procedure in the operating room i would use fat to do it, otherwise restyland or juvederm work well and last about a year and a half in that location
Wednesday November 4, 2009 12:20 VAL LAMBROS
12:22
Colin Stewart: 
You created some Photoshopped images of Barbara Walters to show how this could work. I'm working to retrieve them from a spam filter!
Wednesday November 4, 2009 12:22 Colin Stewart
12:22
VAL LAMBROS: 
hah
Wednesday November 4, 2009 12:22 VAL LAMBROS
12:22
Colin Stewart: 
Meanwhile, here are a couple of photos of an actual patient with the same problem. Could you discuss what's shown in them?
Wednesday November 4, 2009 12:22 Colin Stewart
12:23
Colin Stewart: 
traction-2-pre-inj-small
Wednesday November 4, 2009 12:23 Colin Stewart
12:23
Colin Stewart: 
traction-2-po-inj-small
Wednesday November 4, 2009 12:23 Colin Stewart
12:24
VAL LAMBROS: 
she clearly has a very unnatural from her facelift this is a classic joker line. you can see with just a few cc's of filler she looks much more natural
Wednesday November 4, 2009 12:24 VAL LAMBROS
12:27
Colin Stewart: 
I'm about to get the first Barbara Walters pics.
Wednesday November 4, 2009 12:27 Colin Stewart
12:27
VAL LAMBROS: 
this is not so uncommon in older people who had facelifts in the 70's and 80's
Wednesday November 4, 2009 12:27 VAL LAMBROS
12:27
Colin Stewart: 
bw_08_2
Wednesday November 4, 2009 12:27 Colin Stewart
12:28
VAL LAMBROS: 
see the joker line?
Wednesday November 4, 2009 12:28 VAL LAMBROS
12:28
Colin Stewart: 
... and now what she COULD look lilke.
Wednesday November 4, 2009 12:28 Colin Stewart
12:28
Colin Stewart: 
bw_08_2_post_photoshop_injection_
Wednesday November 4, 2009 12:28 Colin Stewart
12:29
VAL LAMBROS: 
i did this in photoshop, see how she looks old but she does not have the tell tale sings of a facelift, you could get this result with 4ccs of filler
Wednesday November 4, 2009 12:29 VAL LAMBROS
12:29
Colin Stewart: 
How many patients per year on average do you treat for this situation?
Wednesday November 4, 2009 12:29 Colin Stewart
12:29
VAL LAMBROS: 
five to ten. its not commonly know that you can do this
Wednesday November 4, 2009 12:29 VAL LAMBROS
12:30
Colin Stewart: 
And how long does this filler last?
Wednesday November 4, 2009 12:30 Colin Stewart
12:30
VAL LAMBROS: 
if you use hyaluronic fillers like restylane and juvederm about a hear and a half, though i have seen it last lonver. radiesse last about the same amount of time
Wednesday November 4, 2009 12:30 VAL LAMBROS
12:31
Colin Stewart: 
What's the cost?
Wednesday November 4, 2009 12:31 Colin Stewart
12:31
Colin Stewart: 
I'll put other Photoshopped photos on the blog.
Wednesday November 4, 2009 12:31 Colin Stewart
12:31
VAL LAMBROS: 
for multiple syringes about $2000.00
Wednesday November 4, 2009 12:31 VAL LAMBROS
12:31
Colin Stewart: 
Here's a serious question from someone who is using a silly pen name:
Wednesday November 4, 2009 12:31 Colin Stewart
12:32
[Comment From Barbara Wa WaBarbara Wa Wa: ] 
maybe you shold advise patients to not have procedures have you ever thought about that.
Wednesday November 4, 2009 12:32 Barbara Wa Wa
12:32
VAL LAMBROS: 
I advise people that way all the time.
Wednesday November 4, 2009 12:32 VAL LAMBROS
12:32
Colin Stewart: 
Dr. Lambros, I know that's a question you've thought about, because the topic is on your Web site.
Wednesday November 4, 2009 12:32 Colin Stewart
12:33
Colin Stewart: 
The Web site says: "For many people he will suggest doing nothing, or make suggestions of minor treatments if they don’t need surgery."   Could you please explain?
Wednesday November 4, 2009 12:33 Colin Stewart
12:33
VAL LAMBROS: 
all problems in the face are not surgical. you have to use different solutions for different problems
Wednesday November 4, 2009 12:33 VAL LAMBROS
12:33
Colin Stewart: 

That's rare in Newport Beach, according to your Web site. I take it that you think many of your colleagues in Newport Beach are too quick to turn to the knife when patients come in unhappy with their bodies and thinking they need plastic surgery.

Wednesday November 4, 2009 12:33 Colin Stewart
12:33
VAL LAMBROS: 
well, look around and you can see lot of very odd looking faces.
Wednesday November 4, 2009 12:33 VAL LAMBROS
12:34
Colin Stewart: 
I'd like to take one more question from a reader before proceeding to the topic of eyes.
Wednesday November 4, 2009 12:34 Colin Stewart
12:34
[Comment From GuestGuest: ] 
I am 32 and I am noticing two things 1) darkening(small spots) in one area and 2) deepening of frown lines right above the center of my eyebrows. I do not feel like I need botox just yet but I am wondering what else I can do to help me look "fresher"
Wednesday November 4, 2009 12:34 Guest
12:35
VAL LAMBROS: 
it depends what the lines look like and how deep they are. I would think that a 32 year old should probably take a nice cruise.
Wednesday November 4, 2009 12:35 VAL LAMBROS
12:35
Colin Stewart: 
Other readers' questions are welcome too.
Wednesday November 4, 2009 12:35 Colin Stewart
12:36
Colin Stewart: 
You're not of the school of thought that Botox shots should start early to keep lines from forming, I take it.
Wednesday November 4, 2009 12:36 Colin Stewart
12:36
Colin Stewart: 
A related question from a reader:
Wednesday November 4, 2009 12:36 Colin Stewart
12:36
[Comment From NatureLoverNatureLover: ] 
why do people (especially women) in their 20's and 30's feel they need to get Botox to look fresher? Seems way too young.
Wednesday November 4, 2009 12:36 NatureLover
12:36
VAL LAMBROS: 
its been studied that you have to use botox continually to keep the muscle activity down. in a young person that is expensive maintenance
Wednesday November 4, 2009 12:36 VAL LAMBROS
12:37
VAL LAMBROS: 
i agree. to young
Wednesday November 4, 2009 12:37 VAL LAMBROS
12:37
Colin Stewart: 

It's time to turn to our next topic – how the passage of time affects the area around people's eyes (and what cosmetic doctors can do about it, if their patients are bothered by the changes).

 

 

Here's a pair of photos of a woman at age 21 and again at age 64.

Wednesday November 4, 2009 12:37 Colin Stewart
12:37
Colin Stewart: 
lambros-patient-1-450w-21-and-65
Wednesday November 4, 2009 12:37 Colin Stewart
12:38
Colin Stewart: 

What are the changes that you see?

 

(Readers' comments are welcome.)

 

Wednesday November 4, 2009 12:38 Colin Stewart
12:38
VAL LAMBROS: 
this is a very common pattern of ageing. the upper lids get hollow and the eye looks rounder and older.
Wednesday November 4, 2009 12:38 VAL LAMBROS
12:38
VAL LAMBROS: 
sometimes fillling an eye in is better than taking things out of it.
Wednesday November 4, 2009 12:38 VAL LAMBROS
12:39
Colin Stewart: 
The "upper lids" means the actual upper eyelid or the area just between the eyebrow and the eyelid? Which   gets hollow?
Wednesday November 4, 2009 12:39 Colin Stewart
12:39
[Comment From maxmax: ] 
hallowness
Wednesday November 4, 2009 12:39 max
12:39
VAL LAMBROS: 
the area between the eyebrow and the eyelid
Wednesday November 4, 2009 12:39 VAL LAMBROS
12:40
Colin Stewart: 

Wrinkles are what strike me first. Are wrinkles typically at the top of patients' lists when they come to you for a consultation when they look like this?

Wednesday November 4, 2009 12:40 Colin Stewart
12:40
[Comment From NatureLoverNatureLover: ] 
Nose looks like the same person, but the eyes ... look entirely different - almond shaped on left - very round on right. Why? Prior surgery?
Wednesday November 4, 2009 12:40 NatureLover
12:41
[Comment From maxmax: ] 
what can you do about the eyebrow sitting on the eyelid (drooping on the eyelid where U cant see the eyelid anymore
Wednesday November 4, 2009 12:41 max
12:41
VAL LAMBROS: 
no. they want to look better and i point out the ways they can look better.
Wednesday November 4, 2009 12:41 VAL LAMBROS
12:41
VAL LAMBROS: 
I can quarantee this is the same person, this is what happens to eyes as they get older
Wednesday November 4, 2009 12:41 VAL LAMBROS
12:42
Colin Stewart: 

Next, here are photos you sent me of a 42-year-old patient.

Wednesday November 4, 2009 12:42 Colin Stewart
12:42
Colin Stewart: 
lambros-patient-4-450w-pre-post-anxiety
Wednesday November 4, 2009 12:42 Colin Stewart
12:42
VAL LAMBROS: 
alot of times you need to do somethig to elevate the eyebrow . sometimes this looks better sometimes it looks worse. it depends on the face
Wednesday November 4, 2009 12:42 VAL LAMBROS
12:42
Colin Stewart: 

On the left (the "before" photo) you said she has high eyebrows and hollowed eye sockets that create a “characteristic ‘concerned’ look.”

 

On the right, the photo is of the same woman 14 months after injections of filler.

 

 

Readers' comments are welcome.
Wednesday November 4, 2009 12:42 Colin Stewart
12:43
VAL LAMBROS: 
notice how she has an anxious look to her face. with a small amount of fill it can make the eyes and face look less worried.
Wednesday November 4, 2009 12:43 VAL LAMBROS
12:43
Colin Stewart: 
How many patients a year roughly do you treat thus?
Wednesday November 4, 2009 12:43 Colin Stewart
12:43
[Comment From maxmax: ] 
both pics look bad
Wednesday November 4, 2009 12:43 max
12:44
VAL LAMBROS: 
a hundred
Wednesday November 4, 2009 12:44 VAL LAMBROS
12:44
Colin Stewart: 
I don't agree with Max.
Wednesday November 4, 2009 12:44 Colin Stewart
12:44
Colin Stewart: 
What's the cost?
Wednesday November 4, 2009 12:44 Colin Stewart
12:44
VAL LAMBROS: 
me either
Wednesday November 4, 2009 12:44 VAL LAMBROS
12:44
Colin Stewart: 
And the filler lasts a year or so?
Wednesday November 4, 2009 12:44 Colin Stewart
12:44
[Comment From NatureLoverNatureLover: ] 
Under the eye wrinkles on right - they're not on the left.
Wednesday November 4, 2009 12:44 NatureLover
12:44
VAL LAMBROS: 
typically 650.00 to 1000.00 in that location hyaluronic fillers last up to three years
Wednesday November 4, 2009 12:44 VAL LAMBROS
12:45
Colin Stewart: 
Interesting observation by NatureLover.
Wednesday November 4, 2009 12:45 Colin Stewart
12:45
VAL LAMBROS: 
lights or makeup i didn't do anything to the lids either time
Wednesday November 4, 2009 12:45 VAL LAMBROS
12:46
Colin Stewart: 

Next, here's a 52-year-old woman who had had upper-eyelid surgery but was unhappy with how she looked.

 

 

Readers' comments are welcome.
Wednesday November 4, 2009 12:46 Colin Stewart
12:46
Colin Stewart: 
lambros-patient-7-450w-restyl-botox-pre-post-5-mos
Wednesday November 4, 2009 12:46 Colin Stewart
12:46
VAL LAMBROS: 
i think she looks better when she is less hollow
Wednesday November 4, 2009 12:46 VAL LAMBROS
12:47
Colin Stewart: 
That's about the previous photo, I expect. On this latest photo, how was she treated? (The photo on the right is five months after the treatment.)
Wednesday November 4, 2009 12:47 Colin Stewart
12:47
VAL LAMBROS: 
she had a half of cc of restylane under each brow
Wednesday November 4, 2009 12:47 VAL LAMBROS
12:49
Colin Stewart: 
The wrinkles under the eyes vanished.
Wednesday November 4, 2009 12:49 Colin Stewart
12:49
Colin Stewart: 
That's coincidental?
Wednesday November 4, 2009 12:49 Colin Stewart
12:49
[Comment From NatureLoverNatureLover: ] 
What didn't she like about her eyes? They look smaller on the right.
Wednesday November 4, 2009 12:49 NatureLover
12:49
VAL LAMBROS: 
that has nothing to do with the injections
Wednesday November 4, 2009 12:49 VAL LAMBROS
12:49
[Comment From TamaraTamara: ] 
My experience has been that the fillers do Not last even a full year. Advertising says longer - but it's false information (as far as my own experience).
Wednesday November 4, 2009 12:49 Tamara
12:50
VAL LAMBROS: 
some people like big round hollow eyes , i think they look older. it is a matter of taste.
Wednesday November 4, 2009 12:50 VAL LAMBROS
12:50
Colin Stewart: 
She had Botox (by you? by someone else?) that raised her eyebrow. You mentioned that earlier.
Wednesday November 4, 2009 12:50 Colin Stewart
12:51
[Comment From flipchikflipchik: ] 
What gives the best long-term results..upper eyelid surgery or repetitive injections of fillers?
Wednesday November 4, 2009 12:51 flipchik
12:51
VAL LAMBROS: 
hyaluronic fillers last according to where you put them. in the lips they will go for six months or so. in the brow , lower and temples and nose they will go up to three years
Wednesday November 4, 2009 12:51 VAL LAMBROS
12:52
VAL LAMBROS: 
depends what the eye looks like and what you want to do. the solve different problems
Wednesday November 4, 2009 12:52 VAL LAMBROS
12:52
[Comment From I Heart BotoxI Heart Botox: ] 
Are there any home remedies--such as tape on the forehead at night time-- that people can do to prevent wrinkles? I'm actually wearing scotch tape between my eyebrows right now as I work on my computer.
Wednesday November 4, 2009 12:52 I Heart Botox
12:52
VAL LAMBROS: 
you mean frownies? i dont know if they work long term or not
Wednesday November 4, 2009 12:52 VAL LAMBROS
12:54
Colin Stewart: 
Another reader asked previously:  

Shouldn't the facelift and eyelid surgery have taken care of those problems?

Wednesday November 4, 2009 12:57 Colin Stewart
12:57
[Comment From maxmax: ] 
what's better fillers for droopy eyelids or eyelid surgery?
Wednesday November 4, 2009 12:57 max
12:58
VAL LAMBROS: 
no. facelift and traditional eyelid surgery take things out of the face not put things back in.
Wednesday November 4, 2009 12:58 VAL LAMBROS
12:58
VAL LAMBROS: 
sometimes to make the face look better you have to do both things.
Wednesday November 4, 2009 12:58 VAL LAMBROS
12:58
[Comment From NatureLoverNatureLover: ] 
Great before and after pics. She looks years younger.
Wednesday November 4, 2009 12:58 NatureLover
12:58
[Comment From I Heart BotoxI Heart Botox: ] 
Sometimes the lines between my eyebrows are more visible than other times. Usually when I drink a lot of water the day before they are less visible. what role does hydration play? is it very effective in preventing wrinkles?
Wednesday November 4, 2009 12:58 I Heart Botox
12:59
VAL LAMBROS: 
droopy eyelids frequently need surgery to tighten the tendons that open the eyes
Wednesday November 4, 2009 12:59 VAL LAMBROS
12:59
[Comment From maxmax: ] 
yeah I never drink water is that bad for my skin?
Wednesday November 4, 2009 12:59 max
12:59
VAL LAMBROS: 
well in your case hydration hides the wrinkles but will not prevent them.
Wednesday November 4, 2009 12:59 VAL LAMBROS
12:59
Colin Stewart: 

We've now come to the end of the time allotted for our chat. Thanks for joining us, Dr. Lambros. I hope we can do this again sometime.

Wednesday November 4, 2009 12:59 Colin Stewart
12:59
VAL LAMBROS: 
if you drink a lot you wont care about your skin
Wednesday November 4, 2009 12:59 VAL LAMBROS
1:00
VAL LAMBROS: 
thanks a lot colin, i appreciate the time with you
Wednesday November 4, 2009 1:00 VAL LAMBROS
1:00
Colin Stewart: 
Hey. I booked a plastic surgeon for this chat, not a comedian.
Wednesday November 4, 2009 1:00 Colin Stewart
1:00
VAL LAMBROS: 
whos being funny?
Wednesday November 4, 2009 1:00 VAL LAMBROS
1:00
Colin Stewart: 

These online chats are scheduled each Wednesday from 12-1 p.m.   Next week's guest (I hope) will be a plastic surgeon with lots to say about male plastic surgery, pec implants, and the use of fillers by male stars such as Brad Pitt. That's still tentative, so watch the "In Your Face" blog for an announcement.

 

On Nov. 18 our guest will be plastic surgeon Dr. David Shafer, who has developed an iPhone app about plastic surgery.

On Nov. 25, Dr. Christopher Zachary, chairman of the UCI Department of Dermatology, will join us to discuss Zeltiq, a new fat-reduction device that uses cold temperature to break down fat cells.

 

Wednesday November 4, 2009 1:00 Colin Stewart
1:01
Colin Stewart: 
Schedule of upcoming 'In Your Face CHATs'
Wednesday November 4, 2009 1:01 Colin Stewart
1:01
[Comment From NatureLoverNatureLover: ] 
Thank you Dr. Lambros & Mr. Stewart!
Wednesday November 4, 2009 1:01 NatureLover
1:01
 

 
 
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