Vista Bridge live chat 11 a.m. Tuesday
Tuesday February 5, 2013
10:50
The Oregonian: 
Hello and welcome to our Vista Bridge live chat. David Stabler and Kenneth Kahn will join us at 11 a.m. Until then, please feel free to submit questions and comments. Expect a short delay between the time you submit and the time you see your comment in the chat.
Tuesday February 5, 2013 10:50 The Oregonian
10:53
David Stabler: 
Good morning, my name is David Stabler and I'm a reporter at The Oregonian. We're going to talk about Portland's Vista Bridge and the issue of suicides there. Thanks for joining us.
Tuesday February 5, 2013 10:53 David Stabler
10:53
The Oregonian: 
For anyone who might have missed it, here's Beth Nakamura's video about Vista Bridge.
Tuesday February 5, 2013 10:53 The Oregonian
10:58
Kenneth Kahn II: 
Hi. I'm Kenneth Kahn, Attorney at Law. IAs a criminal defense lawyer, 've been protecting our constitution and standing up for the rights of the accused for over 23 years. My office is located directly below the Vista Bridge.
Tuesday February 5, 2013 10:58 Kenneth Kahn II
10:58
The Oregonian: 
Thank you both for joining us today.

David, why don't you start. What prompted you to write this story now?
Tuesday February 5, 2013 10:58 The Oregonian
10:59
The Oregonian: 
Ken, how long have you been in the office below the bridge?
Tuesday February 5, 2013 10:59 The Oregonian
10:59
Kenneth Kahn II: 
About 8 years.
Tuesday February 5, 2013 10:59 Kenneth Kahn II
11:00
David Stabler: 
Newspapers tend to dance around the issue of suicide, but we had been hearing about Vista Bridge as a suicide location for some time. When I met Ken Kahn, I realized the issue affected many people and warrented looking into.
Tuesday February 5, 2013 11:00 David Stabler
11:00
The Oregonian: 
Ken, what response have you heard from friends, colleagues, neighbors since David's story was published this weekend?
Tuesday February 5, 2013 11:00 The Oregonian
11:00
Kenneth Kahn II: 
Several friends and colleagues have praised the Oregonian for finally addressing this issue.
Tuesday February 5, 2013 11:00 Kenneth Kahn II
11:01
David Stabler: 
Ken, do you think it's the city's responsibility to impede people from jumping from Vista Bridge?
Tuesday February 5, 2013 11:01 David Stabler
11:02
The Oregonian: 
And David, I know you've received lots of response in comments and emails. Tell us a little about that experience. What's been the range of reaction?
Tuesday February 5, 2013 11:02 The Oregonian
11:02
Kenneth Kahn II: 
Yes, although with this caveat. Had the bridge been privately owned, I would still be raising the same red flag.
Tuesday February 5, 2013 11:02 Kenneth Kahn II
11:03
David Stabler: 
Comments have been all over the place, from compassionate responses to civil rights issues, to people upset about intrusions into their lives.
Tuesday February 5, 2013 11:03 David Stabler
11:03
The Oregonian: 
So Ken, how are you raising the red flag?
Tuesday February 5, 2013 11:03 The Oregonian
11:04
Kenneth Kahn II: 
By increasing the public's awareness of the problem with the bridge, and encouraging people to join in a movement to convince government to install safety fences.
Tuesday February 5, 2013 11:04 Kenneth Kahn II
11:04
The Oregonian: 
What are some possible barriers that have been used to impede suicides from bridges? Fences? What else?
Tuesday February 5, 2013 11:04 The Oregonian
11:05
Kenneth Kahn II: 
There's no shortage of design strategies from which to draw. The Dalles has erected a beautiful and effective fence across I-84.
Tuesday February 5, 2013 11:05 Kenneth Kahn II
11:05
David Stabler: 
Possible barriers are nets or fences, but a man this morning suggested glass panels. A Spanish bridge uses them and they don't appear to obscure the view. Here's the link.
http://esphoto980x880.mnstatic.com/viaducto-de-segovia_17739.jpg
Tuesday February 5, 2013 11:05 David Stabler
11:06
[Comment From Adam B.Adam B.: ] 
Is it just me, or does the whole fence idea sound a lot like the nets at Apple's factories? It seems like putting a bandaid on a much bigger problem--and worse, perhaps, it allows us to ignore the much larger mental health problems and move the suicides to a less public space. I like the idea of a crisis phone (or a few of them) to start. To follow would be more attention and support for those with depression and other severe mental illnesses that often lead to suicide.
Tuesday February 5, 2013 11:06 Adam B.
11:06
Kenneth Kahn II: 
This is an opportunity for designers, artists and architects to participate in creating a beautiful design in keeping with the historic ethos of the bridge.
Tuesday February 5, 2013 11:06 Kenneth Kahn II
11:07
David Stabler: 
Adam, it might sound like a bandaid, but other bridges that have put up barriers saw suicides all but stop.
Tuesday February 5, 2013 11:07 David Stabler
11:07
[Comment From Allan ClassenAllan Classen: ] 
I understand The Oregonian used to, as a matter of policy, not cover suicides or suicides from Vista Bridge in fear that it would encourage others to do the same. Was that true, and if so, why has the policy changed?
Tuesday February 5, 2013 11:07 Allan Classen
11:08
Kenneth Kahn II: 
Adam, the story and the problem addresses the Vista Bridge. I have a problem that needs solving. Imagine if you will, that exploded bodies just showed up in your front yard. Would you want to try and stop that from happening, or would you try and address all death everywhere? For me the answer is narrow and focused.
Tuesday February 5, 2013 11:08 Kenneth Kahn II
11:08
David Stabler: 
Here's some information that shows what happened at Seattle's Aurora St. Bridge:
http://abcn.ws/14Pvf3d
Tuesday February 5, 2013 11:08 David Stabler
11:09
The Oregonian: 
Allan, generally The Oregonian does not cover suicides unless it happens in a very public way or if the suicide involves a public figure. When we do report on suicide in the newspaper, it's after very careful deliberation and consideration.

Do you think the paper should cover suicide more?
Tuesday February 5, 2013 11:09 The Oregonian
11:10
David Stabler: 
Ken, what would like to see happen now?
Tuesday February 5, 2013 11:10 David Stabler
11:10
The Oregonian: 
Readers, what do you think? Should the city of Portland erect barriers on the Vista Bridge? Why or why not?
Tuesday February 5, 2013 11:10 The Oregonian
11:10
Kenneth Kahn II: 
First I would like to see more people involved.
Tuesday February 5, 2013 11:10 Kenneth Kahn II
11:11
Kenneth Kahn II: 
Next I would like to involve government leaders and the Goose Hollow Neighborhood association.
Tuesday February 5, 2013 11:11 Kenneth Kahn II
11:12
Kenneth Kahn II: 
Finally, I would like to be able to present good, workable designs to the National Register for Historic Places and the State Historic Preservation Office.
Tuesday February 5, 2013 11:12 Kenneth Kahn II
11:12
The Oregonian: 
How has the Goose Hollow Neighborhood Association reacted to the idea so far?
Tuesday February 5, 2013 11:12 The Oregonian
11:13
Kenneth Kahn II: 
So far, very little.
Tuesday February 5, 2013 11:13 Kenneth Kahn II
11:13
Kenneth Kahn II: 
I encourage them to contact me. I think they should be involved.
Tuesday February 5, 2013 11:13 Kenneth Kahn II
11:13
[Comment From Allan ClassenAllan Classen: ] 
I don't know if suicides should be covered routinely, and I respect evidence that it may trigger copy cats. I believe a comprehensive report like the one in The Oregonian is appropriate because it may prompt public action to reduce suicides.
Tuesday February 5, 2013 11:13 Allan Classen
11:14
[Comment From Allan ClassenAllan Classen: ] 
Anyway, that's what newspapers do--tell the truth and let the chips fall where they may.
Tuesday February 5, 2013 11:14 Allan Classen
11:15
The Oregonian: 
Thanks, Allan. We appreciate that. And please know that we do carefully consider the effects of our news coverage.
Tuesday February 5, 2013 11:15 The Oregonian
11:15
[Comment From Allan ClassenAllan Classen: ] 
Bad choice of words. Sorry.
Tuesday February 5, 2013 11:15 Allan Classen
11:15
[Comment From JoLene Krawczak, The OregonianJoLene Krawczak, The Oregonian: ] 
Like Ken's desire to take action on the suicides at Vista Bridge, we saw a ongoing and escalating problem of people dying in a very public place, and we saw nothing really being done about it. It's not a new problem or even a new story, but we thought it should be brought to light again.
Tuesday February 5, 2013 11:15 JoLene Krawczak, The Oregonian
11:15
David Stabler: 
One issue that commenters raised several times is Oh, they'll just go somewhere else. But research shows that jumping is an impulsive act and if a person can be impeded, he or she will not find another bridge. In fact, most people change their minds about killing themselves.
Tuesday February 5, 2013 11:15 David Stabler
11:15
Kenneth Kahn II: 
Allan, while I can't speak for the Oregonian, the article did more that merely report the story. David Stabler, the reporter, did an excellent job of exposing the wrip left behind by the sudden loss of a friend or family member. That story needs telling too.
Tuesday February 5, 2013 11:15 Kenneth Kahn II
11:15
The Oregonian: 
By the way, Jolene is David's editor at The Oregonian.
Tuesday February 5, 2013 11:15 The Oregonian
11:16
[Comment From Tim StoutTim Stout: ] 
I grew up a few blocks up Vista from the bridge in the 80s. We called it Suicide Bridge. Am I wrong or has the bridge always been a favorite spot for those taking their life? What makes this a new issue?
Tuesday February 5, 2013 11:16 Tim Stout
11:17
David Stabler: 
Tim, this isn't a new issue. In fact, the Ford Bridge, which Vista replaces, was also called "Suicide Bridge."
Tuesday February 5, 2013 11:17 David Stabler
11:19
Kenneth Kahn II: 
Tim: When a body hits the pavement, it stops trains and traffic. Everyone stuck on that train is forced to look at an exploded body until the police come, and finish their investigation. We have ratings in the movie industry for what violence children and others should and should not see. I think people should not be supposed to this kind of graphic violence in the streets of Portland.
Tuesday February 5, 2013 11:19 Kenneth Kahn II
11:19
[Comment From Tim StoutTim Stout: ] 
I guess that begs the question then, and I apologize, I haven't read the article in The Oregonian yet, but why are we talking about it today?
Tuesday February 5, 2013 11:19 Tim Stout
11:19
David Stabler: 
But we thought it was important enough to look at closely, especially because of MAX trains and Oregon's high suicide rate.
Tuesday February 5, 2013 11:19 David Stabler
11:20
The Oregonian: 
Tim, The Oregonian received tremendous response to the story and we wanted to give readers a chance to weigh in today.
Tuesday February 5, 2013 11:20 The Oregonian
11:20
[Comment From Steve NovickSteve Novick: ] 
David, Ken, this is Steve Novick ... I really appreciate your shining a light on this issue. The story was very well done, and so sad. I think the City has an obligation to see if we can put an effective barrier up without ruining the beauty of the bridge. I realize that there is an argument that we need to save lives, to heck with aesthetics, but beauty is part of what makes life worth living. I'm glad to hear you saying you think there are aesthetically acceptable options - of course, we also need to see what the costs are. I should note that in a way we will be dealing with a larger aesthetics vs. safety issue in the context of the City budget as a whole, where we will be making grim choices between "bigger cuts in Parks, or bigger cuts in Fire & Rescue?" Anyway ... again, thank you for the story.
Tuesday February 5, 2013 11:20 Steve Novick
11:21
David Stabler: 
Steve, thanks for your comment. The historic preservation folks say solutions are out there, it's just a matter of staring the conversation. Budgets are always a consideration.
Tuesday February 5, 2013 11:21 David Stabler
11:22
[Comment From JoLene Krawczak, The OregonianJoLene Krawczak, The Oregonian: ] 
Steve: Thanks for joining us. It is certainly not an easy issue to deal with, and that may be why it has not been addressed before now.
Tuesday February 5, 2013 11:22 JoLene Krawczak, The Oregonian
11:23
Kenneth Kahn II: 
Steve, I am delighted you are involved in this conversation. With regard to expense, should the City consider the cost of dispatching several police, the cost of obstructing the Max lines waiting for the body to clear, and the emotional toll on people witnessing the carnage?
Tuesday February 5, 2013 11:23 Kenneth Kahn II
11:23
Kenneth Kahn II: 
Or are there savings to installing a fence that may outweigh those costs?
Tuesday February 5, 2013 11:23 Kenneth Kahn II
11:24
The Oregonian: 
David and Ken, any idea what the costs might be? What range could we expect?
Tuesday February 5, 2013 11:24 The Oregonian
11:25
Kenneth Kahn II: 
Could a temporary chain link fence be erected at the cost of $42,000 until all the design issues are solved?
Tuesday February 5, 2013 11:25 Kenneth Kahn II
11:25
David Stabler: 
A construction estimator told me a chain link fence would cost $42,000. The historic preservation folks might want something more in keeping with the bridge design.
Tuesday February 5, 2013 11:25 David Stabler
11:25
The Oregonian: 
Folks, we have about 10 more minutes. Please don't wait to submit your questions and comments.
Tuesday February 5, 2013 11:25 The Oregonian
11:25
[Comment From Tim StoutTim Stout: ] 
Am I wrong, or aren't there suicide hotline signs on the bridge currently? I suppose a suicide hotline phone would be a bare minimum effort to prevent them from happening, at least from happening on that bridge on that day. Certainly there's a much bigger mental health problem in this country that is at issue here as well.
Tuesday February 5, 2013 11:25 Tim Stout
11:26
[Comment From Alex TroppAlex Tropp: ] 
For those concerned about the cost of erecting a safety barrier, have you considered the costs to the city associated with periodically diverting emergency response teams and other public resources in order to deal with these incisents? What about the costs to the local economy associated with disrupting traffic flow for several hours? Seems it can't be cheap, and such costs are ongoing.
Tuesday February 5, 2013 11:26 Alex Tropp
11:26
[Comment From Steve NovickSteve Novick: ] 
Ken - Of course we should. But this year we will likely be cutting police too ... But I promise I will circle back, get your list of designers / historic preserverationists / etc. to talk to, and ensure that the Council gives the issue the attention it deserves.
Tuesday February 5, 2013 11:26 Steve Novick
11:26
David Stabler: 
Tim, the city put up crisis phone numbers last September. Golden Gate Bridge has 13 actual phones. But you're right, the root problem of suicides comes back to mental illness.
Tuesday February 5, 2013 11:26 David Stabler
11:27
The Oregonian: 
Gretchen Field was a fascinating party of Sunday's story. How did you find her?
Tuesday February 5, 2013 11:27 The Oregonian
11:29
David Stabler: 
Gretchen Field's father jumped from Vista Bridge in 1950. I saw her comment about visiting the bridge on a website and contacted her. We met just days before she was moving to Arizona and she told me her story.
Tuesday February 5, 2013 11:29 David Stabler
11:29
The Oregonian: 
Readers, time is running short. What else do you want to ask Ken and David? Or what opinions do you have to share?
Tuesday February 5, 2013 11:29 The Oregonian
11:29
Kenneth Kahn II: 
Steve -- that sounds like a good start. I know Bud Clark also would like to be involved in this too.
Tuesday February 5, 2013 11:29 Kenneth Kahn II
11:30
Kenneth Kahn II: 
Bud Clark, who grew up in Goose Hollow, is the former Mayor of Portland. He lives in Goose Hollow and has witnessed suicides from the bridge.
Tuesday February 5, 2013 11:30 Kenneth Kahn II
11:31
The Oregonian: 
David, a lot of readers wondered why suicide appears to be a larger problem in Oregon than in other states. Can you tell us more about that?
Tuesday February 5, 2013 11:31 The Oregonian
11:32
David Stabler: 
Oregon's rate of suicide is high -- 9th in the country -- but reasons are elusive. I plan to look into the issue and try to find out.
Tuesday February 5, 2013 11:32 David Stabler
11:33
The Oregonian: 
Is it our weather? Is SADD the issue?
Tuesday February 5, 2013 11:33 The Oregonian
11:34
[Comment From Alex TroppAlex Tropp: ] 
David and Ken, I would like to hear your thoughts on potential design issues for the new Sellwood Bridge. The new bridge will be designed to accomodate significan numbers of pedestrians. Any thoughts about whether those building the bridge should consider altering the design if necessary to incorporate a safety barrier as it is built, and whether the authorities might look into covering any such additional costs?
Tuesday February 5, 2013 11:34 Alex Tropp
11:34
David Stabler: 
People don't kill themselves because of weather, I've learned. May is actually the most popular month for suicides.
Tuesday February 5, 2013 11:34 David Stabler
11:35
Kenneth Kahn II: 
Strangely, and unexpectedly, all of the suicides I've witnessed are on beautiful, sunny days.
Tuesday February 5, 2013 11:35 Kenneth Kahn II
11:35
[Comment From Tim StoutTim Stout: ] 
I suspect our gloomy weather plays a part in the high suicide rate in Oregon, it would be interesting to see if suicides increase in the winter here.
Tuesday February 5, 2013 11:35 Tim Stout
11:36
[Comment From Tim StoutTim Stout: ] 
That comment was sent before both of David and Kenneth's recent comments negating the weather issue.
Tuesday February 5, 2013 11:36 Tim Stout
11:36
Kenneth Kahn II: 
Thanks to the Oregonian and everyone for participating in this.
Tuesday February 5, 2013 11:36 Kenneth Kahn II
11:37
[Comment From JoLene Krawczak, The OregonianJoLene Krawczak, The Oregonian: ] 
David's story cites experts who say phones and signs don't stop suicides. Maybe people working together can take the message on the signs at Vista Bridge --"We can help you cross this bridge" -- and extend it to other effective ways to help people safely across Vista Bridge.
Tuesday February 5, 2013 11:37 JoLene Krawczak, The Oregonian
11:37
David Stabler: 
That's a good question, Alex. I think the designers should address the issue on the Sellwood Bridge, if it's not too late.
Tuesday February 5, 2013 11:37 David Stabler
11:37
The Oregonian: 
Before we sign off, any closing thoughts?
Tuesday February 5, 2013 11:37 The Oregonian
11:38
David Stabler: 
I think this could be the beginning of a conversation about Vista and other bridges.
Tuesday February 5, 2013 11:38 David Stabler
11:39
[Comment From JoLene Krawczak, The OregonianJoLene Krawczak, The Oregonian: ] 
Thank you, Ken
Tuesday February 5, 2013 11:39 JoLene Krawczak, The Oregonian
11:39
David Stabler: 
Thank you for your questions and comments. If you have more ideas or questions, please email me: dstabler@oregonian.com
Tuesday February 5, 2013 11:39 David Stabler
11:40
Kenneth Kahn II: 
If you would like to stand with me in support of preventive fences on the Vista Bridge, please email at kennethkahn@me.com.

Thanks
Tuesday February 5, 2013 11:40 Kenneth Kahn II
11:40
The Oregonian: 
Thanks Ken and David for taking part in today's chat. And thanks to all of you for your great questions and insights. If you have other topics you'd like to cover in a Living live chat, please email me at kgabrielson@oregonian.com
Tuesday February 5, 2013 11:40 The Oregonian
11:40
 

 
 
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