DNC Rules Hearing: Live From Washington
10:00
BackFromOhio: 
BackFromOhio -
Bad morning; got here hour early; hotel people took my 25 ft ethernet cord; no wireless bandwidth - so I hope we're finally on
Saturday May 31, 2008 10:00 BackFromOhio
10:05
BackFromOhio: 
Room is packed; standing room only; as for the demonstration - at 8a.m. this morning, buses arrived from Florida -- New Yorkers came on buses that left at 2am; speaker list for demonstration includes Stephanie Tubbs Jones, NOW person -- I'll give details - someone also walked off w/speaker list;
Saturday May 31, 2008 10:05 BackFromOhio
10:07
BackFromOhio: 
There are people in "overflow room" because it is so packed.   Sally Minard is here at meeting.   Saw Lanny Davis. I have UPI in back of me & London Times to my right.  
Saturday May 31, 2008 10:07 BackFromOhio
10:13
BackFromOhio: 

European Press Photo Agency to my left.

Saturday May 31, 2008 10:13 BackFromOhio
10:14
BackFromOhio: 
Applause for Herman's statement RBC is revisiting its decision.  
Saturday May 31, 2008 10:14 BackFromOhio
10:17
BackFromOhio: 
I see there is a "balcony" overlooking meeting room where are lots of young people with PCs.   I am in the reserved press area in meeting room next to TV cams & straight back from dais where RBC members seated.
Saturday May 31, 2008 10:17 BackFromOhio
10:22
BackFromOhio: 

This is my observation: The staff legal memos go to lengths to discuss RBC's authority to seat delegates in accord with a method of its own creation rather than pursuant to primary results; disguised threat/pressure or what RBC aiming for?

Saturday May 31, 2008 10:22 BackFromOhio
10:23
BackFromOhio: 
That is, FL & MI delgates.
Saturday May 31, 2008 10:23 BackFromOhio
10:30
BackFromOhio: 
Ausman - recognition that FL has violated rules; asking for 50%; Appeal  One based on right of DNC members, etc. to  serve as unpledged  Convention delegates -- SDs, per wording of Charter which also provides that all by-laws and delegate selection rules shall be consistent with  Charter.  
Saturday May 31, 2008 10:30 BackFromOhio
10:37
BackFromOhio: 
I believe Ausman's argument that Charter trumps is correct as a matter of corporate law (my area), "DNC SHall ensure that...  "     "shall" is form of subjunctive that express a command, as in "thou shalt not...." -- sorry for the pedantry, but this is some of what corporate law involves.   Lots of applause for Ausman's statements that RBC can't deprive those who are to be SDs per Charter of rights to go to [and participate] in Convention;
Saturday May 31, 2008 10:37 BackFromOhio
10:40
BackFromOhio: 
Ausman's continuing on point re: "shall" in Charter; axiom of corporate law that where Charter & by-laws in conflict, Charter trumps -- if there's something else in charter relevant here, I didn't see it mentioned in staff legal mem
Saturday May 31, 2008 10:40 BackFromOhio
10:57
BackFromOhio: 
Lots of applause for Ausman's last 2 statements;  I'm told demonstration going well -- it's hot outside.  
Saturday May 31, 2008 10:57 BackFromOhio
11:00
BackFromOhio: 
Lots of applause for Floridians here to support FL challenge.  
Saturday May 31, 2008 11:00 BackFromOhio
11:03
BackFromOhio: 
Others speaking at demonstration: Congresswoman Corrine Brown, FL, 3rd Congressional District; Erica Massa, 2008 Candidate for Congress from NY (and Veteran); Ambassador Elizabeth Bagley, Former S Ambassador to Portugal & Senior Advisor to Secretary of State Madeline Albright; Kim Gandy, President of NOW, Brent Wilkes, National Exec Director League of United Latin American Citizens
Saturday May 31, 2008 11:03 BackFromOhio
11:04
BackFromOhio: 
Lots of applause & whistles for Nelson's statement that FL votes need to be counted.   Audience seems to be all supporters of full seating of FL & MI delegations -- not a boo since things started.
Saturday May 31, 2008 11:04 BackFromOhio
11:07
BackFromOhio: 
More demonstration speakers: Jehmu Greene, Former President, Rock the Vote; Lulu Flores, Pres, Natinal Women's Political Caucus; Amy Rao, Founder, Integrated Archive Systems & President, 11th Hour Project; Reverend Marcia Dyson, African-American Minister, Washington D.C.; Jim Hannagan, Founder, Florida Demands Representation;
Saturday May 31, 2008 11:07 BackFromOhio
11:16
BackFromOhio: 
Applause for Nelson most enthusiastic yet -- lots of whistles as well - sorry if this is evident from live cable TV coverage -- I don't know what is coming through.
Saturday May 31, 2008 11:16 BackFromOhio
11:23
BackFromOhio: 

Judging by their silence when all else are applauding loudly for Nelson, there seem to be a couple of rows of Obama supporters in front left rows.  

Saturday May 31, 2008 11:23 BackFromOhio
11:29
BackFromOhio: 
Just got copy of agenda with list of speakers for RBC meeting; after Joyner will be Rep Robert Wexler for "Obama for America"; then Mich Dem Pty Chair Mark Brewer; then Senator Carl Levin for Mich; then former U.S. Rep David Bonior for Obama; former Michigan Gov James Blanchard for Clinton campaign;
Saturday May 31, 2008 11:29 BackFromOhio
11:33
BackFromOhio: 
Some audience members standing while applauding Joyner's comments.
Saturday May 31, 2008 11:33 BackFromOhio
11:35
BackFromOhio: 
Hey - if anyone has questions, comments, etc.   send "reader comments"
Saturday May 31, 2008 11:35 BackFromOhio
11:38
BackFromOhio: 
Audience response very positive - she's impassioned.     Most audience comprised of Hillary supporters it seems to me.  
Saturday May 31, 2008 11:38 BackFromOhio
11:39
BackFromOhio: 
Can you hear the audience's loud applause?   Most of audience standing in applause & whoopping (sp?) it up
Saturday May 31, 2008 11:39 BackFromOhio
11:40
BackFromOhio: 
Big applause for Katz's statement of agreement with most of what Joyner said.
Saturday May 31, 2008 11:40 BackFromOhio
11:42
BackFromOhio: 
I'm sitting 15 feet in back of where Joyner is seated; I heard not one single boo.   Audience is mostly Hillary supporters, but are clapping for Katz statement that there would have been more primary voters in FL
Saturday May 31, 2008 11:42 BackFromOhio
11:45
BackFromOhio: 

Point presumably is to support some penalty against FL for jumping the calendar -- underlying claim I suppose is that more Florida voters would have participated in primary had it been within the rules.  

Saturday May 31, 2008 11:45 BackFromOhio
11:46
BackFromOhio: 
Brazile's statement that "justice" flows through many streams -- intended to imply that justice can come to FL voters without full seating of FL delegation??
Saturday May 31, 2008 11:46 BackFromOhio
11:48
BackFromOhio: 
We'll see how many Obama supporters are here when reps of his camp speak.
Saturday May 31, 2008 11:48 BackFromOhio
11:49
BackFromOhio: 
Wexler's up:   Resounding applause -
Saturday May 31, 2008 11:49 BackFromOhio
11:51
BackFromOhio: 
Yes - Joyner wants all delegates seated.
Saturday May 31, 2008 11:51 BackFromOhio
11:52
BackFromOhio: 
Broad-based applause for Wexler - audience members seem to be applauding for both pro-Hillary and pro-Obama statements; I'm not sure everyone here knows different legal arguments.
Saturday May 31, 2008 11:52 BackFromOhio
11:54
BackFromOhio: 
Nelson didn't answer; I think ruled out of order, but Joyner was loud & clear.   Will try for clarification at lunchbreak.

Lots of Obama supporters in gallery behind.   Calling out inappropriately.
Saturday May 31, 2008 11:54 BackFromOhio
11:59
BackFromOhio: 
Wexler's request for support of reinstatement per Ausman petition -- loud applause; boos and applause (both loud) for Wexler's claim Obama campaign should be congratulated for such position.  
Saturday May 31, 2008 11:59 BackFromOhio
12:00
BackFromOhio: 
Boos for request for half votes for SDS
Saturday May 31, 2008 12:00 BackFromOhio
12:01
BackFromOhio: 
Aren't they always making it about Obama.   Why does Obama campaign want only 50% of SDs?
Saturday May 31, 2008 12:01 BackFromOhio
12:02
BackFromOhio: 
Sitting right next to Dan B from Washington Post
Saturday May 31, 2008 12:02 BackFromOhio
12:05
BackFromOhio: 

Balz just listening; if he has recorder, I don't see it.

As for FL SDs, perhaps more of them support Hillary.

Saturday May 31, 2008 12:05 BackFromOhio
12:06
BackFromOhio: 
I only know mine; had enough trouble getting this set up this a.m., including the Hotel's appropriation of my 25-foot ethernet cord!
Saturday May 31, 2008 12:06 BackFromOhio
12:08
BackFromOhio: 
Anyone know name of other WashPo reporter with rimless glasses?   He's sitting next to Balz
Saturday May 31, 2008 12:08 BackFromOhio
12:10
BackFromOhio: 
Big boos for Wexler's response to Tina's Q as to whether Obama campaign would oppose full seating of all delegates.   Hisses & boos for Wexler's answer that in   essence Obama Campaign supporting Ausman petition.
Saturday May 31, 2008 12:10 BackFromOhio
12:10
BackFromOhio: 
Reaction to Wexler's argument re: Obama's extraord concession was both loud applause and loud boos.
Saturday May 31, 2008 12:10 BackFromOhio
12:12
BackFromOhio: 
Ausman petition, I believe, but defer to BTD, makes 2 requests:
Reinstatement of all SDs are req'd by DNC Charter; and
I think 50% reinstatement of pledge delegates.
Saturday May 31, 2008 12:12 BackFromOhio
12:14
BackFromOhio: 
Balz now working on laptop.   Could it be that Obama campaign support for Ausman petition came as a surprise?  
Wexler -- here's the danger -- says RBC can apportion/ etc delegates if reinstatement.
Saturday May 31, 2008 12:14 BackFromOhio
12:16
BackFromOhio: 
Here it is - RBC member asking Wexler about "re-slating"  so Obama campaign can review slate of any reinstated delegates.    
Saturday May 31, 2008 12:16 BackFromOhio
12:17
BackFromOhio: 

Roosevelt:   "Re-slating" means candidate right of approval in "new Process"; discussed in staff legal memo.

Saturday May 31, 2008 12:17 BackFromOhio
12:18
BackFromOhio: 

London Times guy says Ickes sitting in room

Saturday May 31, 2008 12:18 BackFromOhio
12:20
BackFromOhio: 
I don't know why Wexler keeps emphasizing that RBC did bad things to FL

Lots of applause for Huffman
Saturday May 31, 2008 12:20 BackFromOhio
12:22
BackFromOhio: 

Wexler:   Ausman petition Obama campaign supporting is based on reinstating percentages as voted for in primary?????
I think Wexler is really exercised because he realizes what's at stake in Florida in the Fall.  

Saturday May 31, 2008 12:22 BackFromOhio
12:23
BackFromOhio: 

Thanks for the support.   I'm not commenting much on what all of you can hear on TV - trying to fill in color.   If you want more, I'll try.  

Saturday May 31, 2008 12:23 BackFromOhio
12:24
BackFromOhio: 
Losing end ?
Saturday May 31, 2008 12:24 BackFromOhio
12:26
BackFromOhio: 
My sense is that Obama campaign has realized how much they'll lose in FL if they don't support reinstatement.  
Meeting running way overtime.   Lunch was supposed to be noon.

Dem political commentator from PBS here - Mark Shields. Lots of people getting up to leave room - I don't know why, because meeting is continuing.
Saturday May 31, 2008 12:26 BackFromOhio
12:29
BackFromOhio: 

Over lunch break I will be going out to find out about the demonstration; turns out someone I know well was person who got the speakers.  

Saturday May 31, 2008 12:29 BackFromOhio
12:32
BackFromOhio: 
A reporter is telling me that Wexler is ONLY supporting one of two Ausman petitions - the one that asks for reinstatement of 50% of pledged delegates.   I'm not sure.   Will get clarification at break.
Saturday May 31, 2008 12:32 BackFromOhio
12:37
BackFromOhio: 

Shields taking notes.   WaPo people on their PCs ; another guy -- infront of me playing solitaire!

Saturday May 31, 2008 12:37 BackFromOhio
12:41
BackFromOhio: 

Brewer - no one responding to Brewer's claim that polls show if Obama's name had been on ballot, Clinton would only have gotten 46% of vote; audience must be suffering low blood sugar.

Saturday May 31, 2008 12:41 BackFromOhio
12:43
BackFromOhio: 
Brewer is representing "Mark Brewer Group as Challengers. He is Michigan DNC Chair.     He's arguing for Michigan DNC compromise proposal for the 69-59 split.  
Saturday May 31, 2008 12:43 BackFromOhio
12:45
BackFromOhio: 
The exit poll data is to support Michigan DNC's proposal of 69-59 rather than 73 for Hillary as a "compromise."   Tina now asking question.   Tina making excellent point that exit poll reliability brought into question in last few elections. Lots of applause for Tina's statement
Saturday May 31, 2008 12:45 BackFromOhio
12:46
BackFromOhio: 
Kamarck making point that in MI there have been many elections where voters selected "uncommitted" delegates.
Saturday May 31, 2008 12:46 BackFromOhio
12:48
BackFromOhio: 
Kamarck making point that "uncommitted" is valid presidential preference.   Don't want to set precedent that whenever voters vote for uncommitted, party can take it upon itself to determine what the votes mean.

Brewer's response:   This is unusual situation.   Not a legal argument; missing the point.  
Saturday May 31, 2008 12:48 BackFromOhio
12:49
BackFromOhio: 

I think staff legal memo acknowledges that technically it cannot assign uncommitted delegates -- going on memory here.

Saturday May 31, 2008 12:49 BackFromOhio
12:56
BackFromOhio: 

Katz:   Bringing up candidates' pulling names off ballot.   Asking Brewer to confirm that primary vote has less legitimacy because leading candidate not on ballot.  

Kleinfeld:   Asking Brewer how petition addresses rules:   Acknowledges RBC can issue waiver.   Asking what section of rules or Charter allows RBC to allocate delegates 69-59.   Kleinfeld making point Rule 13A requires allocation according to candidates voted for and "uncommitted."  

Brewer not relying on rule because situation is unique.   Kleinfeld: Are you relying on "Any rule" -- mumbled amusement in audience.

Ickes:   Applause in audience for his statement that 4 candidates voluntarily withdrew names from ballot & no party rule nor DNC request required them do withdraw & same completely voluntary --Loud applause for statement candidates withdrew to curry favor w/Iowa.   Obama supporters (I presume) applaud for Brewer's statement his concern is voters of Michigan.

 

Saturday May 31, 2008 12:56 BackFromOhio
12:59
BackFromOhio: 
Surmise that most unopened 30,000 absentee ballots would have been Obama ballots?   Exit polls are bad enough but assumptions about unopened ballots??????????
Saturday May 31, 2008 12:59 BackFromOhio
1:00
BackFromOhio: 
Main concern: Voters who did not vote in primary   -- will someone please raise issue of the Conyers groups that advertised for people supporting other than someone on ballot to vote uncommitted????
Saturday May 31, 2008 1:00 BackFromOhio
1:01
BackFromOhio: 
Applause in room does not "matter" for determining outcome; I'm giving color, and other readers have reported that boos/applause not coming across on TV as I am experiencing it here in the meeting room.
Saturday May 31, 2008 1:01 BackFromOhio
1:02
BackFromOhio: 
Brewer:   RBC committee has used exit polls to help establish affirmative action goals so RBC should be willing to use them to fashion remedy to this unique situation.

Saturday May 31, 2008 1:02 BackFromOhio
1:04
BackFromOhio: 
Sen Levin on behalf of Mich DNC as "Intervening Party." MI DNC is Intervenor because challenge brought by Mark Brewer Group.
Saturday May 31, 2008 1:04 BackFromOhio
1:07
BackFromOhio: 
Supporting Brewer challenge  position for seating of all delegates with full voting rights.   All agree - both campaigns.   Difference is over apportionment of delegates.   Asking RBC not to overturn unity position agreed to by supporters of both Clinton & Obama & not go either w/Obama campaign 50/50 split or Clinton's 73/__ split request.
Saturday May 31, 2008 1:07 BackFromOhio
1:08
BackFromOhio: 
Levin:   Please don't inject element of disunity into the unity.   If RBC can reach better conclusion, "Sobeit"   -- not a good move -- saying "4th way to do it" in RBC's hands.
Saturday May 31, 2008 1:08 BackFromOhio
1:18
BackFromOhio: 
Levin:   We in Michigan have advantage by being "on the ground" in Mich; important to know how we got here because it can effect how Dems & public view what is happening.   Michigan felt DNC system of selecting presidential candidate makes no sense and that no state should have right to go first.   Inn 2004, Michigan decided to take its case to convention to move up its date.   McAuliffe asked Michigan not to do so.   So commission studied; came up with history-making recommendatin to open up system so states other than IA & NH could go early: Recommended that 1st caucus, IA, 1st primary, NH, with additional one or two first-tier caucuses between IA & NH; NH only state to have voted no.   NH has maintained "Privileged position" over decades.   Party decided to put in additional states; Mi applied to be one of new states; MI said okay, provided NH accepted additional states (?) - NH did not accept addition of states.   MI could not get answer as to whether NH would abide by decision to add states.     Reading commission statement that IA & NH are not reflective of full spectrum of Dem voters.   NH Secy of State then says he's going to jump his state ahead of NV.   NH then asked for waiver after RBC issued rule that NH go third.   What about integrity of rules Levin asks.   Levin - if not going to enforce the rules, & give NH waiver, then give MI waiver.
Saturday May 31, 2008 1:18 BackFromOhio
1:18
BackFromOhio: 
Lots of applause for Levin
Saturday May 31, 2008 1:18 BackFromOhio
1:24
BackFromOhio: 
Levin:   If RBC going to move in direction per its rule not to also go IA then NH in primaries, then stick to it.   Lots of applause

Ben Johnson:   Wants to know why no one has mentioned that it was constituency new rules wanted io include -- labor in west, Asians & Hispanics in West and African Americans in South.   Claims no one has been speaking to this issue.     Admires Brewer for his knowledge, work he does in MI, but he voted to penalize FL
Saturday May 31, 2008 1:24 BackFromOhio
1:29
BackFromOhio: 
Germond - problem is names not on ballot.   Needs help figuring out what would be fair, so wants to know in detail how MICH arrived at 69-59.   I think MI has made this very clear.  
evin ans:   Clinton camp argues73/55 reflects primary vote, including 5% votes for those other than Clinton & Undecided.   Acknowledges primary "flawed..   Mich proposal splits diffs between Clinton proposal & Obama even split proposal. Obama pledged in NH to take name off ballot.  
Saturday May 31, 2008 1:29 BackFromOhio
1:34
BackFromOhio: 
Gentleman speaking:   Concerned about precedents RBC may set here; if give credence to primary, are moving delegates from Clinton & giving them to Obama; applause.   Also worried about precedent of rewarding candidate who has voluntarily removed himself from ballot & taking votes from candidate who stayed on ballot.   Respects Levin position.
Levin response:   Using what districts used.   Levin says if I were sitting on RBC I'd be concerned about precedents, but those on the ground in MI has reached unity solution.   On June 14, balance of delegates will be selected; please don't upset our unity formula; points out Dems tried to get re-run, but legislature would not approve.
ICKES:   Great admiration for Levin, & one reason for admiration is Levin's long devotion to the law.  
Saturday May 31, 2008 1:34 BackFromOhio
1:38
BackFromOhio: 
I can't see what she is going.   Although my seat is pretty good, there's no gradation.   I need a couple of phone books.

ICKES:   Proposal would do enormous violence to RBC rules in 2 ways:   "Uncommitted" has always been given exact same status as that of named candidate.   So proposal to take 55 delegates & convert to one candidate; but must agree that this year virtually every exit poll this year has been notoriously off-mark.   So taking uncommitted & converting them to Obama delegates; pointing out "Uncommitteds" are fair game for any candidate to persuade to join their camp.   Party is asking to simply take 4 delegates from Clinton.   Finds it stunning that given importance of "Fair Reflection" this is stunning -- "Hell, why not take 10 of em?"
Saturday May 31, 2008 1:38 BackFromOhio
1:40
BackFromOhio: 
Ickes comments on taking delegates - applause.
As matter of law, to help with unity, did not raise parliamentary issue; but does not think RBC has jurisdiction to maintain challenge as drafted.   Ickes did not raise in interests of unity.   Shutting him down because out of town.
Saturday May 31, 2008 1:40 BackFromOhio
1:44
BackFromOhio: 

Levin:   Ickes is calling for "fair reflextion" of a flawed primary. LOUD APPLAUSE; we're trying to keep party together so we can win in Nov.

Ickes did get to ask 3rd Q: & Levin is answering all 3.   Applause for Levin saying Obama should be figured in the mix.   Not a legal answer which is what I think Ickes was asking for.

Levin: How have fair reflexion of flawed primary -- we in MI tried to get another primary but couldn't.

Levin - each side is going to ask for different position.   Levin asking for unity position.

ICKES: Levin, can you expand on mention of credentials committee: If RBC reaches conclusion that's a 4th way or reaches conclusion it can't reach concusion, presumes issue will go to Credentials Committee.

Saturday May 31, 2008 1:44 BackFromOhio
1:52
BackFromOhio: 
Bonior: Lots of applause.   Obama campaign supports compromise: Going through history of MI - struggling economically. Wanted to be one of 2 additional states to go early with IA & NH, but RBC selected NV & SC to add diversity of groups in those states.   Commends RBC for its selection.   Going through dates each state adopted primary dates.  
RBC penalized MI for selected early date and RBC levied penalties. Going through who decided to take names off ballot.   I claims HRC told MI radio though even though her name on ballot, MI primary would not count, but kept name on out of deference to MI voters in Fall.
Many voted tor SEN Obama by write-in - but same invalid under state law because candidate has to have registered candidacy.     Going through exit polls - AA voters voted 68% in exit polls for Clinton.   That doesn't seem so high given votes in other states. Obama voters struggling & did not vote because told by national DNC that votes would not could.   {Ignores groups that did public info campaign urging people who wanted candidate not on ballot to vote uncommitted.]   Asking for = split.   Boos & Applause.
Saturday May 31, 2008 1:52 BackFromOhio
1:55
BackFromOhio: 
Bonior cont'd:   Voters denied opportunity to participate for candidate (vote in primary for same) need to be taken into consideration.   Bonior:   Not Obama's fault:   Not until Spring 2008 that some in MI raised possibility of holding second primary or took action.   Could not be scheduled so late; Obama not responsible for same.   He respected RBC & supported national party   2pm & no lunch break yet.   I wonder if meeting will spill over to tomorrow.  
Saturday May 31, 2008 1:55 BackFromOhio
1:56
BackFromOhio: 
Bonior cont'd:   Clear that resulting delegates should be split between 2 candidates because primary election results not valid indicator of presidential preference of voters.
Saturday May 31, 2008 1:56 BackFromOhio
1:57
BackFromOhio: 
Bonior cont'd   Bonior got lotsof boos.   I think he's been arguing that Hillary agreed that the primary should not count, as she claimed at time it would not count - so says Bonior.  
Saturday May 31, 2008 1:57 BackFromOhio
1:59
BackFromOhio: 

Bonior:   Wants SDs reinstated.   Members are struggling to get through this without food -- at least it seems to me.   Fewer than ten people standing in applause for Bonior.

Saturday May 31, 2008 1:59 BackFromOhio
2:03
BackFromOhio: 
Smith:   Points out RBC did not require that candidate withhold name from ballot.   Why would a major candidate running a brilliant campaign decide to withhold name?   She's from D.C> where they run primaries all the time but they never count, but people vote because want to express preference.   So why did candidates decide not to go on ballot or authorize write-in votes for them.   Smith is deeply saddened that voters, who are final decision, not given opportunity because Obama et al took selves off ballot - & how could Obama people decide what voters wanted.   Pointing out are many parts of nomination process that are flawed, including caucuses,but distrubing that party is even thinking of overriding outcome of a vote.
Saturday May 31, 2008 2:03 BackFromOhio
2:07
BackFromOhio: 

Bonior response to Smith - among other things thought there was always opportunity for MI to go back to Feb caucus date, & Spring date did not happen, so were many problems at different junctures in process.
Why don't Clinton people point out groups that did public info campaign urging people wanting a candidate not on ballot to vote "uncommitted."

RBC Member w/red hair:   Concerned about RBC making determination to assign uncommitteds.   Believes they'd go overwhelmingly at convention for Obama, so why is his campaign asking committee not to honor primary vote.   Regrets initial vote on matter. Can be persuaded to recognize 50%, could be persauded to recognize 100%, but thinks RBC has to recognize integrity of vote.

Saturday May 31, 2008 2:07 BackFromOhio
2:08
BackFromOhio: 
There are sections in the back with Obama supporters & a couple of rows on left side toward the front.  
Saturday May 31, 2008 2:08 BackFromOhio
2:10
BackFromOhio: 
RBC Member:   Concern she has is unknown; agrees election was flawed, but neither can know , so thinks honoring votes as cast, no reason to split hairs, is no perfect solution but believes uncommitteds will go for Obama.   Tries to imagine what voters who went uncommitted wanted.  
Saturday May 31, 2008 2:10 BackFromOhio
2:15
BackFromOhio: 
Ms. Fowler:   Understands MI in midst of its delegate selection process. IF RBC granted Bonior's requested even split, how does he suggest selecting delegates.   Bonior:   We just want Obama camp to be part of determining delegates; does not mean they will scrap what's been done already, but wants its input.  
TINA:     Levin proposed 69/59 used for selecting delegates at district level?   No - used 73-_5 but same can accommodate proposed formula.   This is Brewer responding.   TINA:   Re: 50/50 & comments on 50-50 & rules, charter:   For Tina, means people who go into voting booth and expect their votes will be respected.   Don't expect that down the road, someone else will decide how to allocate voters' choices.   If we're going to do this, why not suspend 2012 primaries and sit in this room and decide the votes.   Loud applause.
Saturday May 31, 2008 2:15 BackFromOhio
2:23
BackFromOhio: 

Former Gov Jim Blanchard for Clinton campaign:   No Dem has won presidency for last 60 years except Carter without Michigan.   But RBC must not turn its back on 600,000 who voted in MI primary this year -- almost 4 times votes in 2004 primary & more votes than IA and other states.   He will campaign vigorously for Obama if he is nominee. & He's heard Hillary say in private company she'll do same.     State decided on primary vs. caucus -- Clinton took no part in this. 4 candidates made knowing, willing decision to take names off ballot.   Was flawed strategy; 4 candidates kept names on ballot, Kucinich campaigned in MI; pledge candidates signed did not require them to take name off ballot.

Didn't see Hillary's statement that primary won't count in MI until after primary. Her statement was made in NH.  

Was ORGANIZED< VIGOROUS, "UNCOMMITTED CAMPAIGN"; voters were publicly urged to vote uncommitted.   Obama, Edwards & Richardson had joint handbills handed out advocating same.  

Saturday May 31, 2008 2:23 BackFromOhio
2:24
BackFromOhio: 
Afterlunch is discussion; it is open to public, but I don't think public can participate, but I don't know.
Saturday May 31, 2008 2:24 BackFromOhio
2:24
BackFromOhio: 
Actually, Blanchard is coming across here as very forceful.  
Saturday May 31, 2008 2:24 BackFromOhio
2:28
BackFromOhio: 
Blanchard making point that there are very important issues at stake that could have been aired in MI but were not.   I.e., state has been punished enough.   Does not make sense to punish MI voters.   Not Dem way & Not American way -- enthusiastic applause.  
If turn back on voters of MI or FL, you will be flirting with McCain victory - take nothing for granintg.   We believe in MI that vote is sacred in this country; does not want his DEM party to be viewed in 2008 like Supreme Court in 2000 -- respect voters of great state of MI., just as voters in MI & America deserve a new Dem president.   Enthusiastic applause.
Saturday May 31, 2008 2:28 BackFromOhio
2:31
BackFromOhio: 
Does Blanchard support MI Dem proposal.   No - Clinton campaign supports allocation of delegates per primary vote.   Appreciates difficulty and hard work put in by those who worked to get consensus.   Does not agree w/Levin's description of primary as flawed -- now saying he thinks most uncommitted for Obama and maybe Edwards -- now saying was flawed to extent candidates allowed to remove names.   5,000 polling places open, 600,000 people voting -- record-setting; people were following campaign, were debates in MI for months. People had good idea about campaign and wanted their voices heard.  
Saturday May 31, 2008 2:31 BackFromOhio
2:33
BackFromOhio: 
Q     Do you think party should have rules on timing?
Jim B:   Agrees should be rules but that RBC made mistake in not rotating early states.   Shouldn't let IA & NH, according to Levin, have a lock on nominations.  
Response -- snarky:   "I'm glad you think we should have rules."
JIm reponse:   "I do agree we should have rules but I don't think you should have rules that penalize voters."   Loud applause.
Saturday May 31, 2008 2:33 BackFromOhio
2:36
BackFromOhio: 
Sharon Stroschein - So Dak:       Asks:   If you had it to do over again, would we be going through this?
Jim B:   Hillary took no position on whether MI should have primary or caucus or date; if had to do it again I'd say candidates should not be allowed to remove selves from ballot:   Agrees with Levin on whether they'd do this again.
Saturday May 31, 2008 2:36 BackFromOhio
2:42
BackFromOhio: 
Fowler (?):   Bringing up Rule20.1A that requires that states that violate should be penalized?   Asks if any other rules was violated.   Primary otherwise(?) fully complied with rules.   So claiming primary flawed is inappropriate.   Applause.  
Everyone else has suggested allocation of votes contrary to how votes cast.   Is direct violation of specific provisions of Charter of Dem party.   No court can overturn same -- Section 4, Art II of Charter absolutely clear here.  
Blanchard:   Is our position that delegates should be allotted per primary.   Thinks uncommitted will be mostly Obama delegates.   And SDs may switch back & forth.  
Katz:   We made decision to penalize Mich; all candidates said in response they would not play in Mich.   I'm saying we will reinstate some delegates.   MI will be represented at convention, but RBC will not penalize candidates who decided not to participate.   Lots of applause.   Let's not trivilize horrendous events -- what happened in FL is not equivalent to what is going on here.
Saturday May 31, 2008 2:42 BackFromOhio
2:48
BackFromOhio: 
RBC Member:   I believe voters in MI whowere told their votes won't count should not be penalized for not voting.   Raises issue of how MI treated write-in votes.   No way to consider them excpt as uncommitted.   Yet 30,000 cast ballots with write-in votes.   Wants them reconsidered.
Blanchard:   Agrees.   But in run-up to Jan 15 primary, no one was saying, includig media, Levin, Brewer, & News Media had public statements urging people to vote.   Agrees there should be way to do write-in.  
RBC:   But 30,000 didn't get message & filed write-in vote.
Blanchard:   If I had my druthers, I'd count them.
Brazile:   How we use word "disenfranchisement" - in history of same in our country, & GOv, though you blieve process not flawed, but given state executive committee comprised of all campaigns, do you believe their proposal is fair to all voters?   Jim B points out Clinton campaign had no one representing it on committee that came up with "compromise" proposal.  
Saturday May 31, 2008 2:48 BackFromOhio
2:54
BackFromOhio: 
Brazile:   We're making great eforts to try to resolve situation.   Donna will support proposals to give 2 states their votes; you mentioned your mother, so I'm going to tell you what my mother said:   Play by the rules & respect rules LOUD APPLAUSE & BOOs.   When "you" decide to change the rules in mid-game or endgame, that's cheating       We come here in spirit of unity; and not everything we do here today will reflect the rules, but we come here in spirit of unity; quotes Johnson on signing voting rights bill.   Speaking about fairness & true intentions of voters, we must pay attention to write-ins and those who did not vote because did not think their votes would count.   Now we see Obama supporters -- mostly youth standing, loud applause.
JimB:   Hillary did play by the rules.   LOUD APPLAUSE.   He's not responding to Donna's mention of cheating.
ICKES:     3 comments:   Harold told he cannot make comments.   Will be full deate right after lunch.
Chair of RBC recognizes Conyers.   Many rise in applause.
Saturday May 31, 2008 2:54 BackFromOhio
2:55
BackFromOhio: 
Thanks for concern; I'm severely hypoglycemic, so I've had food with me!   Is break now, so I'm going to stop for now while I check out the demonstration.

But:   Rules that say write-ins don't count are MI state law that says write-ins don't count unless candidate has registered.
Saturday May 31, 2008 2:55 BackFromOhio
2:58
BackFromOhio: 

I did not advocate that Clinton "cheating"   -   I was summarizing Donna Brazile's comments.   Please don't take them out of context.   I am trying to report what is being said here as part of the official challenge presentations & deliberations.   These are not my opinions unless I specifically reference as much.   I will try to make sure I am more clear here.

The applause for cutting off Ickes seems to have come from Obama supporters in audience.   But this is a surmise, not a legal opinion.

Saturday May 31, 2008 2:58 BackFromOhio
3:07
TalkLeft: 
Back from Ohio will be back and resume after the lunch break.
Saturday May 31, 2008 3:07 TalkLeft
4:13
BackFromOhio: 

Hi - I'm back so:

First - demonstration broke up mid-day at some point while Carl Levin was spoking due to heavy rain.   Were some fellas holding signs with pic of black panther that read vote for  black panther candidate; security, upon request, ejected them from demonstration.  

Saturday May 31, 2008 4:13 BackFromOhio
4:28
BackFromOhio: 
Next - regarding percentages:   The Committee is looking at what the challenges are asking for.   I heard on the QT over the break that committee met informally last night to get sense of members and looks like 50% reinstatement in FL & apportioning votes per primary; 50 state aportionment for SDs too; we'll see   This is in no way official.  
Saturday May 31, 2008 4:28 BackFromOhio
4:32
BackFromOhio: 

Were at least several hundred; could have been more.   Buses already went back.

Wexler was pretty impassioned.   He did not sound overly loud, but he did speak more audibly than some of the others.

I'm not going to give an opinion here on whether MI & FL primaries should be treated as equal - I'm here today to report to you what is transpiring at the meeting.   I do think the meeting may spill over to tomorrow.   It's already quite late & afternoon deliberations have not yet resumed.

Saturday May 31, 2008 4:32 BackFromOhio
4:32
BackFromOhio: 
No delegates are at their seats; perhaps they are meeting.   Dont know.
Saturday May 31, 2008 4:32 BackFromOhio
4:56
BackFromOhio: 

I don't know what the hold-up is; didn't get much info about the demonstration, as it was rained out.

Saturday May 31, 2008 4:56 BackFromOhio
5:11
BackFromOhio: 

I don't think Brazile said Hillary was cheating.

Saturday May 31, 2008 5:11 BackFromOhio
5:17
BackFromOhio: 
Was just told there were 3,000 people at the demonstration.   Sandy Rapp played.  
Saturday May 31, 2008 5:17 BackFromOhio
5:17
BackFromOhio: 
Can you guys see each other's comments??
Saturday May 31, 2008 5:17 BackFromOhio
5:46
BackFromOhio: 
Scuttlebut is that the RBC is 90% there in making decision.  
Saturday May 31, 2008 5:46 BackFromOhio
5:51
BackFromOhio: 

Sorry - comments are asking me what the 10% is about -- I have no idea.     We are wondering if some of committee members don't have to get to the fundraiser tonight    

Saturday May 31, 2008 5:51 BackFromOhio
5:53
BackFromOhio: 
Commenter just wrote in that CNN just announced Obama resigning from Trinity Church
Saturday May 31, 2008 5:53 BackFromOhio
5:55
BackFromOhio: 
Other commenters are writing in that various news outlets are reporting 300 at the demonstration.   Someone who was there told me 3,000.  
Saturday May 31, 2008 5:55 BackFromOhio
6:02
BackFromOhio: 
OKay - RBC members filing in.   Clapping as they file in.  
Saturday May 31, 2008 6:02 BackFromOhio
6:13
BackFromOhio: 
Saw Wolfson.       Lots of separate conversions.  
Saturday May 31, 2008 6:13 BackFromOhio
6:17
BackFromOhio: 
Clinton people looking very serious -- but many do; could be fatigue -- it's been a long day, & mood throughout the day & in room --  paying close attention to what's being said.   Clapping was neither side --  glad things being resumed.
Saturday May 31, 2008 6:17 BackFromOhio
6:19
BackFromOhio: 
I am being asked which candidate has greater representation in the room.   Anything I say is less scientific than a poll.   Audience seems to represent supporters of both sides; some wearing campaign buttons but by no means all.
Saturday May 31, 2008 6:19 BackFromOhio
6:21
BackFromOhio: 
Hufffman -  motion to fully seat FL delegates -- everyone is cheering.  
Saturday May 31, 2008 6:21 BackFromOhio
6:23
BackFromOhio: 
Huffman speaking in favor of her motion; Fl did what they could to come into compliance, but couldn't vote against paper trail for voting.     Noone's giving anyone anything yet.   Just making motions and speaking to motion
Saturday May 31, 2008 6:23 BackFromOhio
6:25
BackFromOhio: 
Time online is reporting both sides hinting at full Florida seating.   Let's see if anyone opposes the motion.
Saturday May 31, 2008 6:25 BackFromOhio
6:28
BackFromOhio: 
M'Donald opposing motion.   Okay to revisit somesanctions.  
Gates:   Also cannot vote for motion; in favor of "respecting the rules."  
Saturday May 31, 2008 6:28 BackFromOhio
6:30
BackFromOhio: 
Tina:   Saying motion to seat full FL delegation has no chance of passing.   Tina respects rules, but feels we are a party of inclusion.   & wish her colleagues would vote differently.
Saturday May 31, 2008 6:30 BackFromOhio
6:32
BackFromOhio: 
Germond:   Made hard decisions about rules, fairness & principle before setting rules.   Does not support 100% penalty, nor 100% lifting of penalty.
Saturday May 31, 2008 6:32 BackFromOhio
6:33
BackFromOhio: 
Germond mentioning her work for civil rights; lots of unfavorable murmuring in audience.
Saturday May 31, 2008 6:33 BackFromOhio
6:33
BackFromOhio: 
Germond:   Lots of boos for her statements that we're a party of rules; she feels badly that Florida can't be seated 100% -- people calling out.
Saturday May 31, 2008 6:33 BackFromOhio
6:35
BackFromOhio: 
Ickes:   Associating himself with comments by Tina & Alice.  
Mona Pasquil - parents raised her very strictly; there are rules & we lived by those rules, but sometimes have to deal with reality and wants to be responsible to voters.
Saturday May 31, 2008 6:35 BackFromOhio
6:37
BackFromOhio: 
Vote:   Will carry by 2/3?
Motion by Alice Huffman to restore FL 100%:

Those in favor raising hands - enormous outcry from audience in favor.
Saturday May 31, 2008 6:37 BackFromOhio
6:38
BackFromOhio: 
15 votes opposed to motion; Obama supporters are clapping -- now chanting "Denver."  

Call for abstensions.   Katz not voting because from FL & can't vote.
Saturday May 31, 2008 6:38 BackFromOhio
6:41
BackFromOhio: 
Now motion on Ausman petition -- Ralh Dawson making motion -- restore all SDs, each with 1/2 vote -- boos & cheers; in addition, pledged delegate votes allocated per Jan primary -- 52.5 for Clinton, 6.5 for Edwards; 33.5 for Obama
50% pledged delegate votes.
Saturday May 31, 2008 6:41 BackFromOhio
6:43
BackFromOhio: 

Huffman:   Claiming big step

Audience member calls out:   You just took away votes

Huffman:   When we vote, we will leave here more united than when we came.   Audience member just called out "lipstick on a pig".  

 

Saturday May 31, 2008 6:43 BackFromOhio
6:44
BackFromOhio: 
Ickes:   Disappointed but will vote for motion (50%)
Saturday May 31, 2008 6:44 BackFromOhio
6:46
BackFromOhio: 
Chair:   Due to different points of view on Charter vs rules, decided to choose a middle position and go for 50% SD seating.
Saturday May 31, 2008 6:46 BackFromOhio
6:47
BackFromOhio: 
27 votes for Ausman position, with Katz not voting.   Chair is delighted with outcome
Saturday May 31, 2008 6:47 BackFromOhio
6:49
BackFromOhio: 
Motion   69/59 basis at 50%; assign votes according to rules 5, 6 7 & 12 including candidate consultation (I think)
Saturday May 31, 2008 6:49 BackFromOhio
6:50
BackFromOhio: 
D Fowler:   Resolution before us not one which is his first choice, but in best interests of electing DEM in Nov we should support.   Knows Ickes will differ -- but respects & loves him
Saturday May 31, 2008 6:50 BackFromOhio
6:56
BackFromOhio: 
Ickes:   Opposed.   Finds it inexplicable that body supposedly devoted to rules is going to fly in face of sngle most fundamental rule in delegate selection process, i.e., fair reflextion, other than affirmative action rules.   This motion hijacks -- removes 4 delegates won by Hillary; this body of 30 individuals is substituting its judgment for 600,000 voters.   Lots of applause & other shows of support for Ickes.   Rhetoric during meeting about democracy -- stunned "we have gaul...to substitute our judgment for 600,000 voters."   Process was flawed -- hard to find an election in U.S. that's not flawed.   Sure lots of people didn't vote; look at voting stats; this "country has one of lowest participation rates of countries around the world."   Why should this be excuse for substituting judgment of RBC for votes.   As Fowler pointed out -- this is in Charter -- "Fair Reflection"   Donna looking at Ickes with scowl on her face.   Ickes will vote against motion.   As to talk about party unity -- he submits that hijacking four delegates is not a good way to start down path of party unity -- real strong shouts of approval & applause.   Clinton has instructed Ickes to preserve her rights to take this to the credentials committee.   More shouts of "Denver, Denver."  
Saturday May 31, 2008 6:56 BackFromOhio
6:59
BackFromOhio: 
Heinz IL:   Not every day he sees Ickes stunned.   Motion 69-59 at 50%;   wants to congratulate Obama for his leadership -- applause and shouting.  
Saturday May 31, 2008 6:59 BackFromOhio
7:03
BackFromOhio: 

Member:   Only sits here because of Lawrence Gillyat (sp?) who, with Ella Baker from NC formed Mississippi Freedom ________; & were people who looked like him -- African American -- were blocked from process.   But he takes seriously & abides by rules; some suggest that motion is [unfair] -- nothing in motion says votes go to particular process.   Invoking name of Ella Baker to support this motion & end further political posturing.  

 

Saturday May 31, 2008 7:03 BackFromOhio
7:06
BackFromOhio: 
Liz Smith asked to be recognized:   Adresing friends in MI in particular; She supported letting MI go outside window.   But she cannot support position of MI DNC as far as allocation of delegates.   She is Dem with capital D and believes in democracy - & in America voters rule.   She cannot accept compromise that ignores will of 600,000 voters who cast their votes.   This party will be unified but this is not the way to do it.
Saturday May 31, 2008 7:06 BackFromOhio
7:07
BackFromOhio: 
Brewer:   If motion passes, MI will do everything possible to unify Dem Party & carry MI for Dem candidate in the Fall.

Member who invoked Ella Baker - supported applauded & stood   -   didn't look like 1/2 the audience
Saturday May 31, 2008 7:07 BackFromOhio
7:09
BackFromOhio: 

8 votes against; no abstensions -- motion carries.  

Saturday May 31, 2008 7:09 BackFromOhio
7:09
BackFromOhio: 
More shouting of Denver; man shouting that this is NOT the Democratic party, the Republicans are the ones who disenfranchise people.  
Saturday May 31, 2008 7:09 BackFromOhio
7:10
BackFromOhio: 
I wondering if RBC realized how much anger there is
Saturday May 31, 2008 7:10 BackFromOhio
7:10
BackFromOhio: 
Michigan vote was 19 in favor & 8 opposed;   audience member still calling out against stripping of votes.  
Saturday May 31, 2008 7:10 BackFromOhio
7:12
BackFromOhio: 

Fowler:   Wants to thank chair & members for job well done.   Lots of clapping -- Now it looks like more than half the room supports action taken by committee.  

Saturday May 31, 2008 7:12 BackFromOhio
7:16
BackFromOhio: 
Winding up   Roosevelt:   RBC has duty to report to credentials committee; expect report / meeting will be telephonic.  
Now audience members chanting "Madame President".  
Meeting adjourned.   That's all folks; signing off for this evening.

Just one note:   So much for rumors about the 100%.
Saturday May 31, 2008 7:16 BackFromOhio
7:18
TalkLeft: 
Thanks   Back From Ohio, your efforts are really appreciated. Great job.
Saturday May 31, 2008 7:18 TalkLeft
7:18
Thank you for reading today.              

Thousands of users.
Millions of readers.
Free and simple to use.

Try CoveritLive today.

 
 
 
English  English
简体中文  简体中文
Dansk  Dansk
Deutsch  Deutsch
Español  Español
Français  Français
Italiano  Italiano
日本語  日本語
Nederlands  Nederlands
Norsk  Norsk
Português  Português
Русский  Русский
Svenska  Svenska
Close