Game Club: Beyond Good & Evil

(07/31/2008)

8:33

crecente:

We'll be starting in just a few everyone. Just want to give people time to drop in.

Thursday July 31, 2008 8:33 crecente

8:34	Beyond Good & Evil Was overhyped Yes ( 11% ) No ( 89% ) Thursday July 31, 2008 8:34

8:36

crecente:

Well Greg, it looks like its just you and me. lol

Thursday July 31, 2008 8:36 crecente

8:38

crecente:

shew I was getting worried. I sort of forgot to do a reminder post... and it's an hour late. 80

Thursday July 31, 2008 8:38 crecente

8:39

crecente:

Starting in three, gets your super intelligent and thoughtful questions ready

Thursday July 31, 2008 8:39 crecente

8:41

crecente:

OK, lets get under way

Thursday July 31, 2008 8:41 crecente

8:42

crecente:

First I want to appologize for being late, completely lost track of time playing Eden. Alrighty, if you have any questions just type them in and I'll drop them in the discussion.

Thursday July 31, 2008 8:42 crecente

8:42

[Comment From Zombie_MoogleZombie_Moogle: ]

question: Now knoing Jade's nature, what did you think of her choice to sign documents as Shauni?

Thursday July 31, 2008 8:42 Zombie_Moogle

8:43

[Comment From Luke PlunkettLuke Plunkett: ]

Too many chiefs...

Thursday July 31, 2008 8:43 Luke Plunkett

8:43

[Comment From blue_jeepblue_jeep: ]

subconscious maybe?

Thursday July 31, 2008 8:43 blue_jeep

8:43

crecente:

Chime in if you have a comment

Thursday July 31, 2008 8:43 crecente

8:44

[Comment From WildRileWildRile: ]

Interesting how she is supposed to be evil, because I looked up the origin of the name Shauni and it is Hebrew for God's Grace

Thursday July 31, 2008 8:44 WildRile

8:44

[Comment From uberladuberlad: ]

to me it was just a cover name so she wasn't hunted down and, you know, killed

Thursday July 31, 2008 8:44 uberlad

8:44

[Comment From LazarusLazarus: ]

The same night the game launched I cried when they took Pey'j away... am I weak? Did anyone else cry? did any of the Kotaku editors cry or weep at any point during this game? It's quite emotional!!!

Thursday July 31, 2008 8:44 Lazarus

8:44

[Comment From BallisticBallistic: ]

yeah she had flashback constantly to her place in that priest so i woul;d just assume it here real self coming out subconiously

Thursday July 31, 2008 8:44 Ballistic

8:45

crecente:

Does anyone feel that the ending of the story was ruined by the obvious tell that there would be a sequel?

Thursday July 31, 2008 8:45 crecente

8:45

[Comment From blue_jeepblue_jeep: ]

I got a little misty during her talk with the dog after the lighthouse was blown up.

Thursday July 31, 2008 8:45 blue_jeep

8:45

[Comment From GregGreg: ]

Anyone else annoyed at the "sequel scene" at the end with Pey'j? I didn't really think it was necessary to get me to come back.

Thursday July 31, 2008 8:45 Greg

8:46

[Comment From uberladuberlad: ]

it was definitely emotional towards the end... and after the credits as well

Thursday July 31, 2008 8:46 uberlad

8:46

[Comment From Zombie_MoogleZombie_Moogle: ]

well, they didn't leave much else open

Thursday July 31, 2008 8:46 Zombie_Moogle

8:46

[Comment From UnnisUnnis: ]

I felt the post-credit screen was awkward - given Pey'j was in the same type of incubator as with Double H, I'm suprised he wasn't checked for one of the Domz parasites.

Thursday July 31, 2008 8:46 Unnis

8:47

[Comment From WildRileWildRile: ]

a little. I wanted more closure at the end of the game. I felt that more question were raised by the last level than were answered

Thursday July 31, 2008 8:47 WildRile

8:47

[Comment From uberladuberlad: ]

i liked it... was a nice twist to what i felt like was a short story

Thursday July 31, 2008 8:47 uberlad

8:47

[Comment From Rorschach2112Rorschach2112: ]

It's the nature of these games to end on a cliffhanger, at least it felt like a yarn was spun and wrapped up, mostly.

Thursday July 31, 2008 8:47 Rorschach2112

8:47

[Comment From BallisticBallistic: ]

it was something i was looking for cause she is technically a DOM and Remember that HH had one come up when he got drained so i would have assumed the same for everyone suck of energy

Thursday July 31, 2008 8:47 Ballistic

8:47

[Comment From gendo7gendo7: ]

I didn't really like that last scene, felt like a bad sequence tacked on to the end of a movie to tell you to look forward to the next game. Although we almost didn't get that, did we?

Thursday July 31, 2008 8:47 gendo7

8:47

[Comment From ThatGuyOverThereThatGuyOverThere: ]

BGaE is one of the very very few games I've ever played from beginning to end. I have a short attention span. That being said, Any hint of a sequel was something that only made me happy.

Thursday July 31, 2008 8:47 ThatGuyOverThere

8:47

[Comment From LazarusLazarus: ]

I hyped the game for months and knew that there would be a sequel so I wasn't surprised at the cliffhanger but really, to be honest it didn't look so bad until all the sales numbers came in. Then it was just depressing never knowing what would happen to Pey'j :(

Thursday July 31, 2008 8:47 Lazarus

8:48

[Comment From WildRileWildRile: ]

But you also new it was going to have a sequel as it was advertised as first part of a trilogy

Thursday July 31, 2008 8:48 WildRile

8:48

Luke Plunkett:

Complaints about hints at a sequel to one of the best games ever made? Tough crowd.

Thursday July 31, 2008 8:48 Luke Plunkett

8:48

[Comment From GregGreg: ]

Yeah the fact that it had been years with no word on a sequel probably bothered me the most, like the end of Shenmue 2.

Thursday July 31, 2008 8:48 Greg

8:49

[Comment From blue_jeepblue_jeep: ]

The deal with Pey'j seemed to be an absolute afterthought, tacked on, and a "lets not burn any bridges" we may want a sequel.

Thursday July 31, 2008 8:49 blue_jeep

8:49

crecente:

I agree, I think they could have been more subtle with the way they handled it. You don't need a smack in the face to know there's a sequel coming.

Thursday July 31, 2008 8:49 crecente

8:49

[Comment From Rorschach2112Rorschach2112: ]

It was a little bit forced, but it was in no way something like Halo 2's, in which the narrative wasn't even finished.

Thursday July 31, 2008 8:49 Rorschach2112

8:50

[Comment From Less Than JoeyLess Than Joey: ]

I never knew this was going to be a trilogy. I feel so bad for picking this up at a flea market for $7. I would've given my $50 on day one if this was marketed right.

Thursday July 31, 2008 8:50 Less Than Joey

8:50

[Comment From WildRileWildRile: ]

I think that Mass Effect had better closure than BG&E. Mass Effect could almost stand on it's own, you learned the answers to a lot of questions you had, and just wondered what was next

Thursday July 31, 2008 8:50 WildRile

8:50

[Comment From Zombie_MoogleZombie_Moogle: ]

true, but on the other hand, a swift shock can have a strong effect; after all, we're still talking about it

Thursday July 31, 2008 8:50 Zombie_Moogle

8:50

[Comment From GregGreg: ]

Yes, the story was complete at least.

Thursday July 31, 2008 8:50 Greg

8:51

[Comment From gendo7gendo7: ]

It was never marketed from the beginning. Ubisoft just pushed the hell out of Prince of Persia, and they were released the same week almost.

Thursday July 31, 2008 8:51 gendo7

8:51

[Comment From GregGreg: ]

I don't think we're supposed to get into Mass Effect... but that ending was epic.

Thursday July 31, 2008 8:51 Greg

8:51

crecente:

What about the overall balance of the game? Do you think game play took a back seat to plot and artistic style. In many ways BG&E is remembered more as a stylistic title than one with amazing game play.

Thursday July 31, 2008 8:51 crecente

8:52

[Comment From GuestGuest: ]

I think a strong narrative was the primary point of this game, however, the gameplay was far from broken or absent. I think they worked very well together.

Thursday July 31, 2008 8:52 Guest

8:52

[Comment From gendo7gendo7: ]

I think gameplay did take a bit of a backseat, but the stealth aspect of it sorta mirrors Metal Gear Solid, another game that's more style over substance.

Thursday July 31, 2008 8:52 gendo7

8:53

[Comment From Rorschach2112Rorschach2112: ]

The design choices are very simplistic, and they allowed the best parts of the game to shine.

Thursday July 31, 2008 8:53 Rorschach2112

8:53

[Comment From GregGreg: ]

Fighting was unique, kind of reminded me of the Ico/Colossus games with more slow mos

Thursday July 31, 2008 8:53 Greg

8:53

[Comment From Zombie_MoogleZombie_Moogle: ]

it isn't remembered for gameplay because it was confusing to catagorize. when asked about it, i tell people "think Metal Gear Solid meets Pokemon Snap"

Thursday July 31, 2008 8:53 Zombie_Moogle

8:53

[Comment From GregGreg: ]

But the sneaking areas were very fun, as long as I wasn't getting caught.

Thursday July 31, 2008 8:53 Greg

8:53

[Comment From blue_jeepblue_jeep: ]

The artistic style didn't sit well with me, but the story and gameplay ultimately pulled me through it.

Thursday July 31, 2008 8:53 blue_jeep

8:53

[Comment From WildRileWildRile: ]

The game was well balanced. I never got to a point where I felt stuck. I was disappointed you never got to use her special attack very often. Though the passage of time in the game is weird. I wasn't aware that 2 weeks passed since Pey'j was grabbed

Thursday July 31, 2008 8:53 WildRile

8:53

[Comment From ThatGuyOverThereThatGuyOverThere: ]

Are you kidding? Every review I've read about the game mentions the fact that it seamlessly integrates almost every type of game genre, and it only serves to make a robust and complete experience. Stealth, brawls, races, exploration, catch-em-all... the only thing missing was frustrating platformy action.

Thursday July 31, 2008 8:53 ThatGuyOverThere

8:54

crecente:

I agree it blended a lot of different genres, but it felt like it just touched upon them, that there never was any depth in any particular direction.

Thursday July 31, 2008 8:54 crecente

8:54

[Comment From TikeyTikey: ]

Gameplay is simplistic, pretty easy compared to other games of its genre, but I feel that's part of it's appeal, you don't fight with the game, you don't feel frustrated, it allows the rest of the game (specially the narrative) to flow easily.

Thursday July 31, 2008 8:54 Tikey

8:54

[Comment From GregGreg: ]

I loved the art style, but I'm worried about the sequel, looks too realistic if I remember correctly.

Thursday July 31, 2008 8:54 Greg

8:54

[Comment From Zombie_MoogleZombie_Moogle: ]

@ThatGuyOverThere: that's my point, if you can't file it, you can't describe or markeet it

Thursday July 31, 2008 8:54 Zombie_Moogle

8:54

[Comment From BallisticBallistic: ]

I thought the game play was solid. there was so much variation in what to do stealth combat puzzles driving. The plot was decent didn't think it was outstanding but i consider the atmosphere the best part. the Monolouge to woof about the kids was very touching

Thursday July 31, 2008 8:54 Ballistic

8:54

[Comment From blue_jeepblue_jeep: ]

I'm more looking forward to the "realistic" styling of the sequal, if the trailer is accurate.

Thursday July 31, 2008 8:54 blue_jeep

8:54

[Comment From UnnisUnnis: ]

I felt that the gameplay wasn't the primary focus - some portions of combat were difficult (e.g. melee with soldiers), especially when it was combined by an occassional spinning camera.

Thursday July 31, 2008 8:54 Unnis

8:55

[Comment From uberladuberlad: ]

did anyone else have an issue with how the villains were "defined"... i'm still not entirely sure why the DOMZ and Alpha partnered up. Am I forgetting something?

Thursday July 31, 2008 8:55 uberlad

8:55

[Comment From WildRileWildRile: ]

Alpha wanted longer life

Thursday July 31, 2008 8:55 WildRile

8:55

[Comment From emem: ]

estas que si eh

Thursday July 31, 2008 8:55 em

8:56

[Comment From Rorschach2112Rorschach2112: ]

This discussion makes you wonder why that Ubisoft CEO claimed BG&E was too easy. And the sequel will be even easier.

Thursday July 31, 2008 8:56 Rorschach2112

8:56

[Comment From WildRileWildRile: ]

But I want to know more of when they turned against the people and worked with the DomZ

Thursday July 31, 2008 8:56 WildRile

8:56

[Comment From BallisticBallistic: ]

The DOm priest want to power himself because jade was taken from her the alpha section wanted longer lives. or in my theory they were transformed to obey such as HH almost turn into one

Thursday July 31, 2008 8:56 Ballistic

8:57

[Comment From gendo7gendo7: ]

Maybe they'll touch on those topics in the sequel?

Thursday July 31, 2008 8:57 gendo7

8:57

[Comment From uberladuberlad: ]

it seems like theres such a deep backstory to the villains that was barely even mentioned

Thursday July 31, 2008 8:57 uberlad

8:58

[Comment From ThatGuyOverThereThatGuyOverThere: ]

Zombie_Moogle: I look at it this way. Popular books and movies usually combine a number of elements. You can ask what the latest Stephen King book is like, but odds are it will be mistery/horror/action/slasher/etc. I think it's great that a game can do the same thing, especially if it can do it well.

Thursday July 31, 2008 8:58 ThatGuyOverThere

8:58

[Comment From WildRileWildRile: ]

This game really was just a scratch on the surface of the whole story

Thursday July 31, 2008 8:58 WildRile

8:59

crecente:

What I don't get is what motivates Jade. The initial idea, that she's doing it for the children, seems to get dropped pretty quickly. Why is Jade running around doing all of this?

Thursday July 31, 2008 8:59 crecente

9:01

[Comment From ThatGuyOverThereThatGuyOverThere: ]

hehehe, instead of the gritty anti-hero, Jade is the pretty auntie-hero

Thursday July 31, 2008 9:01 ThatGuyOverThere

9:01

[Comment From WildRileWildRile: ]

Children at first, then Pey'j and now to discover who she is

Thursday July 31, 2008 9:01 WildRile

9:01

[Comment From pinzassopinzasso: ]

Because your playing her

Thursday July 31, 2008 9:01 pinzasso

9:01

[Comment From A7onA7on: ]

Perhaps to do whats right and to save her world?

Thursday July 31, 2008 9:01 A7on

9:01

crecente:

That's sort of my point, it's unusual for a hero or heroine's motivations or struggle to be so hard to define

Thursday July 31, 2008 9:01 crecente

9:01

[Comment From beckbeck: ]

i think its still for the children but expanded onto a larger sense of feeling able to help her whole planet and all her friend and the people she has seen hurt

Thursday July 31, 2008 9:01 beck

9:01

[Comment From Less Than JoeyLess Than Joey: ]

I figured she got caught in the wave of the rebellion.

Thursday July 31, 2008 9:01 Less Than Joey

9:02

[Comment From gendo7gendo7: ]

It was for the kids and Pey'j at first, but I think she really just wanted to know the truth.

Thursday July 31, 2008 9:02 gendo7

9:02

[Comment From ChainrxnChainrxn: ]

I got the impression she was driven by a strong urge to stop the Domz and whoever they work with.

Thursday July 31, 2008 9:02 Chainrxn

9:02

[Comment From Zombie_MoogleZombie_Moogle: ]

perhaps her nature as the Shaunie drove her back to the DomZ

Thursday July 31, 2008 9:02 Zombie_Moogle

9:03

[Comment From TikeyTikey: ]

Perhaps it is so vague so that the player can set up his own motivations backed up by the game's story.

Thursday July 31, 2008 9:03 Tikey

9:03

[Comment From The NickrossThe Nickross: ]

Jade is merely a reporter who wishes to uncover the truth. I dont know if it needs to be more complicated than that.

Thursday July 31, 2008 9:03 The Nickross

9:04

[Comment From ThatGuyOverThereThatGuyOverThere: ]

Why did Jason Bourne work to find out who he was and go against the syndicate? Because he could, and because it makes the story move forward.

Thursday July 31, 2008 9:04 ThatGuyOverThere

9:04

crecente:

No Jason Bourne's struggle is man versus himself, at it's heart. He's struggle against his nature. Jade's struggle is all over the place.

Thursday July 31, 2008 9:04 crecente

9:05

[Comment From GregGreg: ]

Maybe Jade just wanted enough money to pimp out her hovercraft

Thursday July 31, 2008 9:05 Greg

9:06

crecente:

What is everyone's expectations for the next Beyond Good & Evil?

Thursday July 31, 2008 9:06 crecente

9:06

crecente:

Do you want it to be a sequel, prequel, side story?

Thursday July 31, 2008 9:06 crecente

9:07

[Comment From GregGreg: ]

Direct continuation of the story, keep the gameplay, especially photography and sneaking.

Thursday July 31, 2008 9:07 Greg

9:07

[Comment From blue_jeepblue_jeep: ]

Hopefully more of the same!

Thursday July 31, 2008 9:07 blue_jeep

9:07

[Comment From Rorschach2112Rorschach2112: ]

I expect it to be more of a standalone experience considering we are probably half the audience right here.

Thursday July 31, 2008 9:07 Rorschach2112

9:07

[Comment From Zombie_MoogleZombie_Moogle: ]

well, the thing that really stood out to me in the trailer was the bandage over Pey'J's infected hand

Thursday July 31, 2008 9:07 Zombie_Moogle

9:07

[Comment From ollivanderollivander: ]

sequel for sure, especially after the ending with peyj

Thursday July 31, 2008 9:07 ollivander

9:07

[Comment From BatmanBatman: ]

Sequel. I need to know what happend with Pey'j.

Thursday July 31, 2008 9:07 Batman

9:07

[Comment From RecusorRecusor: ]

I think a prequel would be awesome, but i doubt it would happen with the cliffhanger they left us with.

Thursday July 31, 2008 9:07 Recusor

9:07

[Comment From gendo7gendo7: ]

My gut feeling tells me that Ubisoft is gonna pull another Prince of Persia: Warrior Within, because the trailer made it look all gritty and realistic...but I really don't hope that is the case.

Thursday July 31, 2008 9:07 gendo7

9:07

[Comment From BallisticBallistic: ]

I hoping it is a sequel and a return to form. in that we learn more about her nature as a battery source and what the war and the DOmz are all about.

Thursday July 31, 2008 9:07 Ballistic

9:07

[Comment From ThatGuyOverThereThatGuyOverThere: ]

My expectation is that it will get my hopes up, and then fail to deliver. I'm a pessimist, but I'm often right.

Thursday July 31, 2008 9:07 ThatGuyOverThere

9:07

[Comment From TheGreatMrChibiTheGreatMrChibi: ]

I'd kill for some backstory on Pey'j. That little pig is enigmatic.

Thursday July 31, 2008 9:07 TheGreatMrChibi

9:07

[Comment From uberladuberlad: ]

sequel. definitely. there is so much more to get through to really get a hold of the story. this is the second time i've beaten this game, and it still feels like it would be a long introduction to most games

Thursday July 31, 2008 9:07 uberlad

9:08

[Comment From Zombie_MoogleZombie_Moogle: ]

the bandage of Pey'J's right hand shows that this takes place after he recieves the DomZ seen after the credits

Thursday July 31, 2008 9:08 Zombie_Moogle

9:08

[Comment From WildRileWildRile: ]

Hmm, good question. The curious part of me wants it to be a sequel. Let me know what's going on currently. You can cover backstory as you go along. I hope it's as good as this one, and seeing how it was a planned sequel and not a tacked on one, it should be.

Thursday July 31, 2008 9:08 WildRile

9:08

[Comment From Less Than JoeyLess Than Joey: ]

I expect the same kind of quirky characters like Rufus and the mammagos. I also hope there will be emotional moments like when Pey'j gets caught.

Thursday July 31, 2008 9:08 Less Than Joey

9:08

[Comment From uberladuberlad: ]

the backstory with pey'j, the entire world, and the domz/alpha sections... the mythology could have been there (and still can be)

Thursday July 31, 2008 9:08 uberlad

9:09

crecente:

(Remember to type in your questions also, if you have one for the group)

Thursday July 31, 2008 9:09 crecente

9:09

[Comment From RecusorRecusor: ]

Frankly with as much going on as there is, there could be a side story going on rather easily as well from another perspective too.

Thursday July 31, 2008 9:09 Recusor

9:09

[Comment From TikeyTikey: ]

Whatever it is I hope Ubisoft gives Ancel enough creative freedom to do what he wants.

Thursday July 31, 2008 9:09 Tikey

9:10

[Comment From TheGreatMrChibiTheGreatMrChibi: ]

If they were being very ambitious, and knew they could pull off a third game, a sidestory introducing new characters with new perspectives (Off-worlders? Pirates? People inside DomZ?) would be interesting. Then link that game up to BG&E in a third game.

Thursday July 31, 2008 9:10 TheGreatMrChibi

9:10

[Comment From FontaineFontaine: ]

The best part of BnG is the fact that a prequel or a sequel, in the right hands would be an ama

Thursday July 31, 2008 9:10 Fontaine

9:10

[Comment From beckbeck: ]

hopefully they will move the story foward in a sensible direction while keeping the feel of the ooriginal and not try and sex it up like prince of persia

Thursday July 31, 2008 9:10 beck

9:10

[Comment From Less Than JoeyLess Than Joey: ]

Did all of you buy this game when it came out or got it for cheap like me?

Thursday July 31, 2008 9:10 Less Than Joey

9:10

crecente:

This is my second time playing the game, the first was when it first came out.

Thursday July 31, 2008 9:10 crecente

9:11

[Comment From ollivanderollivander: ]

I bought it right away. something about it just ttracted me

Thursday July 31, 2008 9:11 ollivander

9:11

[Comment From BallisticBallistic: ]

i got it new and and at like 50 bucks

Thursday July 31, 2008 9:11 Ballistic

9:11

[Comment From Zombie_MoogleZombie_Moogle: ]

i got it for the club

Thursday July 31, 2008 9:11 Zombie_Moogle

9:11

[Comment From Rorschach2112Rorschach2112: ]

I bought 3 versions over the years. One when it first came out.

Thursday July 31, 2008 9:11 Rorschach2112

9:11

[Comment From uberladuberlad: ]

i bought it a month or two after it came out... they cut the price to $20 because no one was buying it.

Thursday July 31, 2008 9:11 uberlad

9:11

[Comment From blue_jeepblue_jeep: ]

@ Joey d/l 'ed it for this discussion.

Thursday July 31, 2008 9:11 blue_jeep

9:11

[Comment From WildRileWildRile: ]

I missed it at release and was planning to buy it. this forced me to buy it sooner

Thursday July 31, 2008 9:11 WildRile

9:12

[Comment From gendo7gendo7: ]

At the time I wasn't sure of the game so I borrowed it off a friend. I kinda wish I had bought it at the time.

Thursday July 31, 2008 9:12 gendo7

9:12

[Comment From beckbeck: ]

i have played this about 12 times, got it for pc then gamecube

Thursday July 31, 2008 9:12 beck

9:12

[Comment From ChainrxnChainrxn: ]

I never really knew anything about it until well after it became a cult hit, and haven't played it until now.

Thursday July 31, 2008 9:12 Chainrxn

9:12

[Comment From angrypastaangrypasta: ]

I just purchased it via Steam a few months ago, though I'd been planning to play the game since it came out. I never got around to it until recently

Thursday July 31, 2008 9:12 angrypasta

9:12

[Comment From TikeyTikey: ]

I played as soon as I was able to get it here (it's complicated to get this kind of games in thircountryland)

Thursday July 31, 2008 9:12 Tikey

9:12

[Comment From ThatGuyOverThereThatGuyOverThere: ]

I'm not gonna lie, I downloaded it for a hacked xbox. If I could find a gamecube version locally, I'd buy it. I've been looking for a while, but none of my local shops have it or can get hold of it.

Thursday July 31, 2008 9:12 ThatGuyOverThere

9:12

[Comment From Less Than JoeyLess Than Joey: ]

I said earlier i bought it at the flea market for $7...a year ago at that.

Thursday July 31, 2008 9:12 Less Than Joey

9:13

[Comment From blue_jeepblue_jeep: ]

I saw a few copies for the PS2 For $7 I might buy one just to play the console version.

Thursday July 31, 2008 9:13 blue_jeep

9:13

[Comment From TheGreatMrChibiTheGreatMrChibi: ]

"That which is done out of love always takes place beyond good and evil." Now that we've played it all through once or twice, how did you guys experience love, if at all, in the game?

Thursday July 31, 2008 9:13 TheGreatMrChibi

9:13

crecente:

Excellent question

Thursday July 31, 2008 9:13 crecente

9:14

crecente:

I'm sort of fascinated with the fact that Jade doesn't have a love interest, but then the more I think about it the more I realize that most games with strong female leads don't have love interests. Is that so male gamers can be that surrugate or is it to empower the female character?

Thursday July 31, 2008 9:14 crecente

9:14

crecente:

Or something else?

Thursday July 31, 2008 9:14 crecente

9:14

[Comment From WildRileWildRile: ]

No love. I felt a connection, but nothing along the lines of love

Thursday July 31, 2008 9:14 WildRile

9:14

[Comment From The NickrossThe Nickross: ]

i don't know if it was love, but the game does a great job of expressing emotion. It feels genuine.

Thursday July 31, 2008 9:14 The Nickross

9:14

[Comment From Zombie_MoogleZombie_Moogle: ]

i felt empathetic for Jade when she found the MDisk Pey'J left

Thursday July 31, 2008 9:14 Zombie_Moogle

9:15

[Comment From blue_jeepblue_jeep: ]

Jades love of , and commitment to, her adopted "family & friends."

Thursday July 31, 2008 9:15 blue_jeep

9:15

[Comment From RecusorRecusor: ]

I believe that, in this case, its would be tacked on and diminish her character alot.

Thursday July 31, 2008 9:15 Recusor

9:15

[Comment From UnnisUnnis: ]

I didn't notice love interests in the classical sense, but there were connections between Jade and the Lighthouse famile.

Thursday July 31, 2008 9:15 Unnis

9:15

[Comment From TheFailBoatTheFailBoat: ]

Maybe it's so the female gamer will feel empowered and the male gamer will fall in love with jade. *cough*

Thursday July 31, 2008 9:15 TheFailBoat

9:15

[Comment From UnnisUnnis: ]

They were mostly connections of friendship rather than love.

Thursday July 31, 2008 9:15 Unnis

9:16

[Comment From RecusorRecusor: ]

You have to give them alot of credit for the lack of cliches that are present in alot of games late.y

Thursday July 31, 2008 9:16 Recusor

9:16

[Comment From beckbeck: ]

i think there a a great sense of family in the game which comes across between pey'j and jade which is i suppose love

Thursday July 31, 2008 9:16 beck

9:16

[Comment From ChainrxnChainrxn: ]

I think its more a result of the male dominant demographic. Gamers generally aren't interested in wooing other males. (Hopefully this is changing)

Thursday July 31, 2008 9:16 Chainrxn

9:16

[Comment From pinzassopinzasso: ]

A love intrest would have only taken away from her need to protect her family.

Thursday July 31, 2008 9:16 pinzasso

9:16

[Comment From ThatGuyOverThereThatGuyOverThere: ]

Jade doesn't have a love interest? I think you don't understand love. You're thinking the selfish narcissistic love. Jade has love for all of the children, for pey'j, and for the people that are suffering

Thursday July 31, 2008 9:16 ThatGuyOverThere

9:16

crecente:

That's not a love interest. I didn't say she didn't experience love, i said she didn't have a love interest. HUGE difference.

Thursday July 31, 2008 9:16 crecente

9:16

[Comment From TheGreatMrChibiTheGreatMrChibi: ]

Romance is hard to pull off in a game, anyway. I mean, even most "dating sims" are just porn that make you click before you get to see something. It's hard to convey romance in a game because romance requires so many elements. But BG&E, I think, it about familial love..

Thursday July 31, 2008 9:16 TheGreatMrChibi

9:17

[Comment From ollivanderollivander: ]

Love interests can work in a game. Look at The Darkness

Thursday July 31, 2008 9:17 ollivander

9:17

[Comment From xconxcon: ]

beyond good and evil features love in a diffrent sense

Thursday July 31, 2008 9:17 xcon

9:17

[Comment From uberladuberlad: ]

@ThatGuyOverThere your definition of love interest is more along the lines of comparing Jade to Mary (of Jesus fame). she's wrapping her arms around the world, with no selfish wants or needs

Thursday July 31, 2008 9:17 uberlad

9:18

[Comment From daigammadaigamma: ]

Does Jade actually even need a love interest. Do we have to cram a love interest into every game. I really liked that this one didn't have a traditional love interest.

Thursday July 31, 2008 9:18 daigamma

9:18

[Comment From TikeyTikey: ]

What I found most appealing of this game was actually its emotionality. Few games made me care for its characters like this one. I remember when I first played it, running to see Pey'j when I rescued him. It's not love in the romantic sense, but sure is a strong emotional connection to the characters, you feel the connection between them and it passes along to you.

Thursday July 31, 2008 9:18 Tikey

9:18

[Comment From ThatGuyOverThereThatGuyOverThere: ]

well if that's what you mean, i agree with pinzasso. a "love interest" sidestory would have made it crap. She would have eventually had to chose between the one and the many.

Thursday July 31, 2008 9:18 ThatGuyOverThere

9:18

[Comment From ThatGuyOverThereThatGuyOverThere: ]

then again, having to sacrifice the one to save the many would have definitely elevated the story to something beyond standard video game fare

Thursday July 31, 2008 9:18 ThatGuyOverThere

9:19

crecente:

What about that Nietzsche reference? Did the game deliver on whatever expectation the title might have created for some?

Thursday July 31, 2008 9:19 crecente

9:19

crecente:

I'm speaking of Neitzche's thoughts on the fulidity of truth and his distrust of language.

Thursday July 31, 2008 9:19 crecente

9:20

[Comment From uberladuberlad: ]

absolutely not. no deliverance. there was no moral ambiguity that lay beyond good & evil. it was just evil. i don't see how it could have been otherwise

Thursday July 31, 2008 9:20 uberlad

9:21

[Comment From TurhayaTurhaya: ]

I never felt the title was anything more than but just. Perhaps I never tried to force the connection either...

Thursday July 31, 2008 9:21 Turhaya

9:21

[Comment From WildRileWildRile: ]

The title seems a little more connected to the game at the end. By finding Jade used to be part of the DomZ and might be something else entirely. It brings in more of the question of what is good and evil and is one of those natural inherent in people

Thursday July 31, 2008 9:21 WildRile

9:21

[Comment From GuestGuest: ]

Yeah, it was pretty cut-and-dry

Thursday July 31, 2008 9:21 Guest

9:21

[Comment From gendo7gendo7: ]

I think it works in the context of the quote (mentioned earlier), but not anything beyond that.

Thursday July 31, 2008 9:21 gendo7

9:21

[Comment From RecusorRecusor: ]

I believe that the only use for the phrase was the poetry at the end. Frankly its more profound then the back and forthing of Neitzsche.

Thursday July 31, 2008 9:21 Recusor

9:21

[Comment From GuestGuest: ]

On the other hand, if you think of BG&E as the name of the SERIES, not just the game, then maybe the next two games could have potentially developed those sort of themes

Thursday July 31, 2008 9:21 Guest

9:21

[Comment From blue_jeepblue_jeep: ]

Honestly, nope. It could've been called anything else and been just as good. Which IS good. But the title did "sell" it to me.

Thursday July 31, 2008 9:21 blue_jeep

9:22

[Comment From beckbeck: ]

I suppose the only way the fluidity of truth and distrust of language is shown in in the propaganda of the alpha sections who are lying about helping people when they are really the enemy...

Thursday July 31, 2008 9:22 beck

9:23

[Comment From TheGreatMrChibiTheGreatMrChibi: ]

It would have been a harder sell if it was called "Also Spoke Zarathustra"...

Thursday July 31, 2008 9:23 TheGreatMrChibi

9:23

[Comment From Zombie_MoogleZombie_Moogle: ]

@Guest: good point. they were written as planned sequels, after all

Thursday July 31, 2008 9:23 Zombie_Moogle

9:23

[Comment From SpiffynessSpiffyness: ]

Why knows? Maybe in the next game Jade would realize that her actions in the first game weren't actually the right thing to do (after she learns more about this intergalactic conflict)

Thursday July 31, 2008 9:23 Spiffyness

9:23

[Comment From BallisticBallistic: ]

What do you think Ubisoft should do to make the game appeal to the general audience while keeping the things we love about the game?

Thursday July 31, 2008 9:23 Ballistic

9:23

[Comment From xconxcon: ]

maybe more marketing?

Thursday July 31, 2008 9:23 xcon

9:24

[Comment From SpiffynessSpiffyness: ]

@Ballistic: Honestly? I thought this game had massive mass-market appeal, especially because of its Disney-esque aesthetic. All it needs is a good marketing push

Thursday July 31, 2008 9:24 Spiffyness

9:24

[Comment From RorschachRorschach: ]

I think the audience itself has changed since then, look at the success of BioShock.

Thursday July 31, 2008 9:24 Rorschach

9:24

[Comment From Zombie_MoogleZombie_Moogle: ]

perhaps the general audience was already won over by the (heavily trafficed) Steam version

Thursday July 31, 2008 9:24 Zombie_Moogle

9:25

[Comment From RecusorRecusor: ]

Perhaps marketing to broadcast the story of the previous game. im thinking semi-viral, but enough to get people interested.

Thursday July 31, 2008 9:25 Recusor

9:25

[Comment From ChainrxnChainrxn: ]

I think this title could do very well with some good viral marketing. However, traditional marketing that capitalized on the previous game's critical sucess would also work.

Thursday July 31, 2008 9:25 Chainrxn

9:25

[Comment From xconxcon: ]

well lets be honest,todays audience dont really go for "orgiginal games"so ubisoft need to do something big.

Thursday July 31, 2008 9:25 xcon

9:25

[Comment From TheGreatMrChibiTheGreatMrChibi: ]

Release the first game on Xbox LIVE and PSN! This is the sort of game that passes by word of mouth. If it's universally and easily available, then over time people *will* play it.

Thursday July 31, 2008 9:25 TheGreatMrChibi

9:25

[Comment From WildRileWildRile: ]

I am concerned about the making it more accessible I've heard. The game was fairly easy and well balanced. Accessibility means changing things

Thursday July 31, 2008 9:25 WildRile

9:26

[Comment From GzussGzuss: ]

i played games like rachet and clank, jak and daxter, but ubisoft did not make good and evil appear to be a game i wanted to go out and buy. their marketing plan needs ot be much improved

Thursday July 31, 2008 9:26 Gzuss

9:26

[Comment From KriiKrii: ]

I do think that a smart thing to do would be the re-release or some more publicity for the first game

Thursday July 31, 2008 9:26 Krii

9:26

[Comment From pinzassopinzasso: ]

The orginal game was easy. I went through on my second run in under 10 hours. I don't see how they can make it any more accessible in that respect.

Thursday July 31, 2008 9:26 pinzasso

9:27

[Comment From ThatGuyOverThereThatGuyOverThere: ]

Put it out on Wii. There are a LOT of people playing games now that never would have thought to play BGaE a few years ago. If they keep the puzzles accessible and put it out on Wii, they could have a huge market. They could even republish the #1 like they have done with so many other game. Just port it to the new systems as a budget title.

Thursday July 31, 2008 9:27 ThatGuyOverThere

9:28	Rate BG&E 10 ( 44% ) 8 ( 51% ) 6 ( 2% ) 4 ( 0% ) 2 ( 0% ) 0 ( 2% ) Thursday July 31, 2008 9:28

9:28

[Comment From angrypastaangrypasta: ]

I could definitely see this game being re-released over XBLA and PSN before the sequel is released, it wouldn't make sense not to

Thursday July 31, 2008 9:28 angrypasta

9:28

[Comment From Zombie_MoogleZombie_Moogle: ]

they just put a game about a photojournalist on the Wii, Dead Rising... they took out the camera!

Thursday July 31, 2008 9:28 Zombie_Moogle

9:29

[Comment From GzussGzuss: ]

"zomg it's on the wii now!!!!" still doesn't want me to go out and buy the game, like i said ubisofts marketing must change, even to this day i have no clue how the game plays or how the plot is directed.

Thursday July 31, 2008 9:29 Gzuss

9:29

[Comment From TheGreatMrChibiTheGreatMrChibi: ]

Oooh. I like the Wii idea. I'd love to have some wiimote staff battles!

Thursday July 31, 2008 9:29 TheGreatMrChibi

9:30

crecente:

We have time for one more question, if anyone has a doozie

Thursday July 31, 2008 9:30 crecente

9:30

[Comment From RorschachRorschach: ]

Okami didn't sell well on the Wii. BG&E would be in a similar place.

Thursday July 31, 2008 9:30 Rorschach

9:30

[Comment From xconxcon: ]

wii would kill the controlls in my opinion

Thursday July 31, 2008 9:30 xcon

9:30

[Comment From SpiffynessSpiffyness: ]

@Gzuss: it's an Action-adventure in the vein of a Zelda game, except with stealth and photography elements

Thursday July 31, 2008 9:30 Spiffyness

9:30

[Comment From KriiKrii: ]

releasing for the XBLA and PSN, i would thinjk would be better than the wii. The wii is already having it's troubles with the lack of hard drive space in hdd space. and this game wouldn't make as much money on a disc like RE4 did

Thursday July 31, 2008 9:30 Krii

9:31

[Comment From Zombie_MoogleZombie_Moogle: ]

How would you have improved BG&E?

Thursday July 31, 2008 9:31 Zombie_Moogle

9:31

crecente:

I think that a little more work needed to be done on the fighting mechnics and a bit more puzzles.

Thursday July 31, 2008 9:31 crecente

9:31

[Comment From xconxcon: ]

better marketing.

Thursday July 31, 2008 9:31 xcon

9:31

[Comment From WildRileWildRile: ]

Not left as many strings hanging at the end of the game

Thursday July 31, 2008 9:31 WildRile

9:31

[Comment From TheGreatMrChibiTheGreatMrChibi: ]

More Mammago Garage Rhinos.

Thursday July 31, 2008 9:31 TheGreatMrChibi

9:32

[Comment From EdBurton6801EdBurton6801: ]

this is one of my favorite games of all time. I was impressed with Ubisoft for keeping the franchise alive. I never thought they'd deliver another one. I'm SO excited for he next one

Thursday July 31, 2008 9:32 EdBurton6801

9:32

[Comment From WildRileWildRile: ]

I want to have resolution when I finish playing a game

Thursday July 31, 2008 9:32 WildRile

9:32

[Comment From uberladuberlad: ]

more explanation/backstory, more meaningful gameplay, less feeling of this being a short story/introduction to a larger novel

Thursday July 31, 2008 9:32 uberlad

9:32

[Comment From zokazoka: ]

More fighting moves... did that super jump move upgrade actually do anything?

Thursday July 31, 2008 9:32 zoka

9:32

[Comment From UnnisUnnis: ]

The main issue was combat - while it is workable, the controls were designed for a strict stealth operation rather than combat-based movements.

Thursday July 31, 2008 9:32 Unnis

9:32

[Comment From GuestGuest: ]

it could have been a bit longer, and it was a bit on the easy side

Thursday July 31, 2008 9:32 Guest

9:32

[Comment From RorschachRorschach: ]

The sandbox type experience could have been expanded upon.

Thursday July 31, 2008 9:32 Rorschach

9:33

[Comment From Less Than JoeyLess Than Joey: ]

I would've added features with the camera like share photos online.

Thursday July 31, 2008 9:33 Less Than Joey

9:33

[Comment From angrypastaangrypasta: ]

Personally I would have added an RPG element to the combat system, maybe the ability to unlock new moves and powers for Jade as she begins to realize that she is not just a normal person. Perhaps something like this in the sequel would be better.

Thursday July 31, 2008 9:33 angrypasta

9:33

[Comment From The NickrossThe Nickross: ]

I feel like the dungeon pacing was awkward. The slaughterhouses, especially, seem longer than they need to be. More locales could have been introduced to improve variety.

Thursday July 31, 2008 9:33 The Nickross

9:33

[Comment From SpiffynessSpiffyness: ]

I think that the photography mechanic could've been expanded with sidequests and stuff. Other than just the collect-a-thon, I mean. Maybe there could've been a job system in the game where you can accept various optional quests requiring clever twists on the photography mechanic

Thursday July 31, 2008 9:33 Spiffyness

9:33

[Comment From UnnisUnnis: ]

@Zoka: The upgrade allows you to launch additional attacks while mid-air.

Thursday July 31, 2008 9:33 Unnis

9:33

[Comment From Zombie_MoogleZombie_Moogle: ]

I would have done what Soul Reaver 2 did; i'd have made the enemies ar more challenging as time went on.

Thursday July 31, 2008 9:33 Zombie_Moogle

9:33

[Comment From xconxcon: ]

i would have added an online feature,maybe photo sharing.

Thursday July 31, 2008 9:33 xcon

9:34

[Comment From TheGreatMrChibiTheGreatMrChibi: ]

I would have just loved *more* of it. More of the city, I mean. I fell in love with Hillys. I love the people, the architecture, the cars that fly over your head... I would have loved to have been able to have wandered around so much more. To see a Hillys movie theater or record store or gotten more taste of their culture. Oh, that'd be a joy...

Thursday July 31, 2008 9:34 TheGreatMrChibi

9:34

[Comment From Zombie_MoogleZombie_Moogle: ]

Difficulty curve was like a Slip'n'Slide

Thursday July 31, 2008 9:34 Zombie_Moogle

9:35

[Comment From KriiKrii: ]

adding control to the other characters, would increase how puzzles would be created.

Thursday July 31, 2008 9:35 Krii

9:35

[Comment From WildRileWildRile: ]

I don't think the game would benefit with online features

Thursday July 31, 2008 9:35 WildRile

9:35

[Comment From angrypastaangrypasta: ]

Some form of co-op would have been nice. It would have been cool to have a buddy able to control Double H or Pey'j during the battles.

Thursday July 31, 2008 9:35 angrypasta

9:35

[Comment From WildRileWildRile: ]

At the same time, with sandbox features, it becomes harder to tell a linear story

Thursday July 31, 2008 9:35 WildRile

9:35

[Comment From SpiffynessSpiffyness: ]

Y'know what nobody's really talked much about? Those great action-running scenes in the city, and the hovercraft racing/looter runs. That stuff was all fantastic. Maybe it'd be cool if they could've worked that more into the main storyline dungeons

Thursday July 31, 2008 9:35 Spiffyness

9:36

[Comment From TurhayaTurhaya: ]

Better rewards for the photo stuff.

Thursday July 31, 2008 9:36 Turhaya

9:36

crecente:

Alright I think that's going to be it for tonight and for this edition of Game Club

Thursday July 31, 2008 9:36 crecente

9:36

crecente:

Thank everyone for participating and sorry things were a little bit of a cluster

Thursday July 31, 2008 9:36 crecente

9:36	Should we do another Game Club? Yes ( 100% ) No ( 0% ) Thursday July 31, 2008 9:36

9:37

crecente:

As always, feel free to continue this discussion in the Kotaku comments. I'll make sure to do a post down the line asking for recommendations for our next game.

Thursday July 31, 2008 9:37 crecente

9:37

crecente:

Thanks again

Thursday July 31, 2008 9:37 crecente

9:38

crecente:

Brian signing out!

Thursday July 31, 2008 9:38 crecente

9:38

crecente:

Thursday July 31, 2008 9:38 crecente