Viewer - Live chat with Jeff Dykehouse on justifiable homicide

Live chat with Jeff Dykehouse on justifi...

Monday June 18, 2012

12:59

[Comment From John AgarJohn Agar: ]

Hi, I’m John Agar, a reporter for Grand Rapids Press and Mlive, here with Jeff Dykehouse, whose story of a justified shooting during an Oct. 8, 2007, break-in was told in a first-person account last week in “Justified to kill: An MLive special report on self-defense homicides in Michigan.” Jeff, a Grand Rapids photographer, was born and raised in Grandville. Joining Jeff in this live chat is John Barnes, the Mlive statewide projects coordinator and Tim Martin, an Mlive legislative reporter. Please feel free to ask Jeff and others questions.

Monday June 18, 2012 12:59 John Agar

1:00

[Comment From John AgarJohn Agar: ]

What's been the reaction to your story?

Monday June 18, 2012 1:00 John Agar

1:01

[Comment From Jeff DykehouseJeff Dykehouse: ]

All very supportive as you can image. Some of my family members have never heard the entire story so they were very interested to read the story.

Monday June 18, 2012 1:01 Jeff Dykehouse

1:02

[Comment From John BarnesJohn Barnes: ]

Jeff, you have the advantage of a duel perspective when it comes to gun ownership: You have had to act in self-defense, and you have also been a police officer – many of whom are leery about too many guns in public. What’s your opinion about an armed citizenry?

Monday June 18, 2012 1:02 John Barnes

1:03

[Comment From Jeff DykehouseJeff Dykehouse: ]

I believe the more law abiding citizens that have guns the better... with some limitations.

Monday June 18, 2012 1:03 Jeff Dykehouse

1:03

[Comment From Jeff DykehouseJeff Dykehouse: ]

They do need training and practice however.

Monday June 18, 2012 1:03 Jeff Dykehouse

1:03

[Comment From Jeff DykehouseJeff Dykehouse: ]

Just owning a gun or getting a cpl isn't really enough.

Monday June 18, 2012 1:03 Jeff Dykehouse

1:04

[Comment From John AgarJohn Agar: ]

You mentioned that you received notes from others in the same situation. What was their reaction to reading your story.

Monday June 18, 2012 1:04 John Agar

1:05

Jeff Dykehouse:

Over the past week I've gotten a bunch of emails. Many from others who have experienced a similar situation.

Monday June 18, 2012 1:05 Jeff Dykehouse

1:06

Jeff Dykehouse:

They have said reading my account and know that there are many others who have gone through it and have been able to make the best of it and move on has been positive.

Monday June 18, 2012 1:06 Jeff Dykehouse

1:06

John Agar:

Do you sense that others have been troubled?

Monday June 18, 2012 1:06 John Agar

1:06

[Comment From John BarnesJohn Barnes: ]

I see we have a number of others following the chat. Please feel free to join the conversation!

Monday June 18, 2012 1:06 John Barnes

1:07

Jeff Dykehouse:

Yes, lots of trouble sleeping, getting to sleep etc.

Monday June 18, 2012 1:07 Jeff Dykehouse

1:08

John Agar:

After the incident, did you have concerns you would be arrested?

Monday June 18, 2012 1:08 John Agar

1:08

Jeff Dykehouse:

Many are seeking counseling but they say it's good for them to talk about it.

Monday June 18, 2012 1:08 Jeff Dykehouse

1:08

[Comment From TracyCTracyC: ]

Jeff, How are has your family handled this? Did your wife and kids have nightmares?

Monday June 18, 2012 1:08 TracyC

1:08

Jeff Dykehouse:

Not really but I had lots of friends and others tell me it would happen just because that's how it always happens.

Monday June 18, 2012 1:08 Jeff Dykehouse

1:09

[Comment From TracyCTracyC: ]

I'm glad to hear they didn't. I remmeber us as a family praying for you.

Monday June 18, 2012 1:09 TracyC

1:09

[Comment From LauraLaura: ]

Do you think part of you wanting to become a police officer was because of these incidents?

Monday June 18, 2012 1:09 Laura

1:10

Jeff Dykehouse:

No. Fortunately my kids weren't there. They seemed to deal with it pretty well. No kids at school every asked them any questions... not one time. What a blessing that was.

Monday June 18, 2012 1:10 Jeff Dykehouse

1:10

Jeff Dykehouse:

Yes at least partially.

Monday June 18, 2012 1:10 Jeff Dykehouse

1:11

Jeff Dykehouse:

I think the world could do with good police officers and I you can never have enough.

Monday June 18, 2012 1:11 Jeff Dykehouse

1:11

John Agar:

There was a woman you wrote about who told you early on (after the shooting) that she had been attacked by the man you shot. Has she responded to your request to contact you? (she didn't call police, concerned she would be deported).

Monday June 18, 2012 1:11 John Agar

1:12

Jeff Dykehouse:

No. Not yet. I'm still hopeful she will.

Monday June 18, 2012 1:12 Jeff Dykehouse

1:12

John Agar:

When you decided to talk about the shooting, what did you hope to accomplish?

Monday June 18, 2012 1:12 John Agar

1:13

John Barnes:

For folks just joining us, legislative reporter Tim Martin is also following this chat. Tim, you wrote about how Stand Your Ground applies in Michigan, and some efforts to undo it. How likely do you think that is?

Monday June 18, 2012 1:13 John Barnes

1:13

Jeff Dykehouse:

That sharing my story would inspire others. One reason was for them not to feel bad about wanting to protect themselves and their families.

Monday June 18, 2012 1:13 Jeff Dykehouse

1:13

[Comment From JoshDJoshD: ]

How has this trauma impacted your personal life, relationships? Do you have trouble trusting people?

Monday June 18, 2012 1:13 JoshD

1:14

Jeff Dykehouse:

No trouble with most any of that really. Just the waking up at night stuff.

Monday June 18, 2012 1:14 Jeff Dykehouse

1:14

[Comment From SteveSteve: ]

Do you shoot with some frequency and recreation

Monday June 18, 2012 1:14 Steve

1:15

Jeff Dykehouse:

I used to shoot competitively. Mostly IDPA matches. I haven't much since the shooting and even less the past few years.

Monday June 18, 2012 1:15 Jeff Dykehouse

1:16

[Comment From Tim MartinTim Martin: ]

There is virtually no chance the "stand your ground" tenets of Michigan law would be changed at this time. The bills passed the Legislature in 2006 with support from both Republicans and Democrats. Republicans control both chambers of the Legislature now. And I doubt most Democrats want the law changed at this point, either.

Monday June 18, 2012 1:16 Tim Martin

1:16

Jeff Dykehouse:

I think shooting on a regular basis is importants.

Monday June 18, 2012 1:16 Jeff Dykehouse

1:17

Jeff Dykehouse:

Just having a gun is not enough... that's an important message that I want to get out.

Monday June 18, 2012 1:17 Jeff Dykehouse

1:17

John Agar:

Right after it happened, what did people say to you? I mean, are they sympathetic, supportive, do people even know what to say?

Monday June 18, 2012 1:17 John Agar

1:18

Jeff Dykehouse:

Most everyone was very supportive. Very caring and understanding.

Monday June 18, 2012 1:18 Jeff Dykehouse

1:18

Jeff Dykehouse:

Lots of offers of support.

Monday June 18, 2012 1:18 Jeff Dykehouse

1:18

[Comment From DustinDustin: ]

After a recent break in at my house, I've been seriously considering a buying a pistol for protection (I've wanted one for a while anyway). What advice would you give to get started? Anything other than training and practice?

Monday June 18, 2012 1:18 Dustin

1:19

Jeff Dykehouse:

No real way for most people to help... time is a good healer.

Monday June 18, 2012 1:19 Jeff Dykehouse

1:19

Jeff Dykehouse:

Talk with other members of your family and get their perspective. Do they support your position?

Monday June 18, 2012 1:19 Jeff Dykehouse

1:19

Jeff Dykehouse:

It's important to get everyone in the house on the same page.

Monday June 18, 2012 1:19 Jeff Dykehouse

1:20

Jeff Dykehouse:

I hope they all understand and welcome the idea.

Monday June 18, 2012 1:20 Jeff Dykehouse

1:21

[Comment From John BarnesJohn Barnes: ]

John Agar, you wrote several of the profiles featured in the Justified to Kill series. How difficult was it for people to open up to you?

Monday June 18, 2012 1:21 John Barnes

1:22

John Barnes:

Jeff, what if any advice would you have for others dealing with the aftershocks of such an act?

Monday June 18, 2012 1:22 John Barnes

1:23

John Agar:

I sensed reluctance on the part of those involved to tell their stories. It brings up painful memories. In some cases, such as distracted driving, people can feel they have a soap box of sorts. Here, I wasn't really sure what the people featured would think they could gain. In some cases, the shootings were controversial to begin with.

Monday June 18, 2012 1:23 John Agar

1:23

Jeff Dykehouse:

Right after the event I had a good friend who was a social worker tell me it was okay to talk about it and to tell the story. Turns out she was right. Opening up and talking and writing about it worked.

Monday June 18, 2012 1:23 Jeff Dykehouse

1:23

[Comment From TIMpTIMp: ]

Are you always available for work? Can individuals/businesses see your work via web? It would be great to see your photography business thrive!

Monday June 18, 2012 1:23 TIMp

1:23

Jeff Dykehouse:

Obviously seeking counsel from a professional but just being able to talk to others about it is good.

Monday June 18, 2012 1:23 Jeff Dykehouse

1:24

Jeff Dykehouse:

How about www.jeffscamera.blogspot.com or www.emilysbigpictureproject.org I'm also on facebook.

Monday June 18, 2012 1:24 Jeff Dykehouse

1:25

Jeff Dykehouse:

I'm not very good at self promotion... thanks!

Monday June 18, 2012 1:25 Jeff Dykehouse

1:25

John Barnes:

In several cities where our reporters worked, a number of people could not bring themselves to talk about their experience. One spent hours talking with a reporter off-the-record. It seemed to help him, but in the end he could not go public.

Monday June 18, 2012 1:25 John Barnes

1:26

Jeff Dykehouse:

When I was approached about the story a few weeks ago I didn't really think I'd have anything to say.

Monday June 18, 2012 1:26 Jeff Dykehouse

1:27

Jeff Dykehouse:

After talking with John Agar and understanding the story line and his easy going manner I felt safe to share the story.

Monday June 18, 2012 1:27 Jeff Dykehouse

1:28

John Barnes:

In another city, a woman forced to kill did talk on the record, then backed out. Almost to a person they were polite, and understood what we were doing, but felt it was too painful.

Monday June 18, 2012 1:28 John Barnes

1:29

[Comment From pampam: ]

i read and was inspired :) i have a cpl and glad i do i think everyone should be able to defend themselves

Monday June 18, 2012 1:29 pam

1:29

Jeff Dykehouse:

I wasn't sure I'd want to assist with the story until I met with and talking to John Agar several time. The whole crew at Mlive as been very supportive.

Monday June 18, 2012 1:29 Jeff Dykehouse

1:30

Jeff Dykehouse:

I'm happy Michigan has changed their stance and allowing so many to get their cpl.

Monday June 18, 2012 1:30 Jeff Dykehouse

1:30

John Agar:

Have any special interest groups approached you?

Monday June 18, 2012 1:30 John Agar

1:30

Jeff Dykehouse:

No. Not yet anyway.

Monday June 18, 2012 1:30 Jeff Dykehouse

1:31

John Barnes:

All - including the public - there are some bills in the Senate that would make it even easier to obtain concealed gun permits, and carry hidden handguns in places where they are now banned - like churches, schools and sports stadiums. Any opinions on that?

Monday June 18, 2012 1:31 John Barnes

1:32

[Comment From TracyCTracyC: ]

I agree with all family members being on board with having firearms in the home. If us as parents try to just hide them the kids will find them and then who knows what will happen.

Monday June 18, 2012 1:32 TracyC

1:32

Jeff Dykehouse:

Some states, like AZ, don't require any kind of a cpl to carry concealed. That's fine in AZ but I like the way it's set up here in MI

Monday June 18, 2012 1:32 Jeff Dykehouse

1:32

Jeff Dykehouse:

I think they could relax some of the restricted places but not all.

Monday June 18, 2012 1:32 Jeff Dykehouse

1:33

Jeff Dykehouse:

Yes, good thought TracyC. The kids have to understand.

Monday June 18, 2012 1:33 Jeff Dykehouse

1:33

John Barnes:

And this one for Tim Martin: Given the Senate has recessed with that bill still pending. Any sense it is stuck? I know the opposition from colleges, schools and others has heated up.

Monday June 18, 2012 1:33 John Barnes

1:33

Jeff Dykehouse:

No matter their ages they need to be educated just like everyone else.

Monday June 18, 2012 1:33 Jeff Dykehouse

1:34

[Comment From TracyCTracyC: ]

I agree they need to relax on some of the restricted places.

Monday June 18, 2012 1:34 TracyC

1:34

Tim Martin:

There is some opposition to the Senate bills but I would not write them off yet. There is a lot of time between now and the end of the legislative term in December.

Monday June 18, 2012 1:34 Tim Martin

1:35

Jeff Dykehouse:

Yes, not all but some of the restricted places.

Monday June 18, 2012 1:35 Jeff Dykehouse

1:35

John Agar:

Before this happened, did you have any concerns about whether or not you would be able to pull the trigger? Did you play out scenarios in your mind.

Monday June 18, 2012 1:35 John Agar

1:35

[Comment From pampam: ]

i think if we are allowed and take proper classes and training we should be able to carry them with us where ever we go. i work where they are not allowed and pray that no crazy decides to get brave one day

Monday June 18, 2012 1:35 pam

1:36

Jeff Dykehouse:

Not really. I thought about it in general terms but never really gave it that much thought.

Monday June 18, 2012 1:36 Jeff Dykehouse

1:37

Jeff Dykehouse:

Yes, maybe if the training was about and beyond what is currently required.

Monday June 18, 2012 1:37 Jeff Dykehouse

1:37

Jeff Dykehouse:

I suppose there could be different levels of training and certifications.

Monday June 18, 2012 1:37 Jeff Dykehouse

1:38

[Comment From DonnaMDonnaM: ]

It sounds like your kids are very important to you. I can only imagine that you are a great dad. Do you find time for yourself and friends/relationships?

Monday June 18, 2012 1:38 DonnaM

1:38

John Barnes:

As part of our research, we noted that 1 in 22 Michigan adults have a concealed weapon permit. How many of our readers with us today have a concealed carry permit?

Monday June 18, 2012 1:38 John Barnes

1:39

[Comment From pampam: ]

be a crying shame i take the time to take the classes and training and something god forbid happens in a restricted area

Monday June 18, 2012 1:39 pam

1:39

Jeff Dykehouse:

They are! I do like kids and have a bunch myself : ) I think I'm a pretty good dad... alway room for improvement. Need to find more time to be a better dad.

Monday June 18, 2012 1:39 Jeff Dykehouse

1:40

Jeff Dykehouse:

yes, and God forbid someone that can't handle a situation like you describe hurts or kills an innocent bystander.

Monday June 18, 2012 1:40 Jeff Dykehouse

1:41

John Agar:

You wrote about being a police officer in Arizona, but returning to Grand Rapids and your photography business. Any thoughts on a return to law enforcement?

Monday June 18, 2012 1:41 John Agar

1:42

Jeff Dykehouse:

Not really. MIchigan's economy still has a ways to go. Still lots of budget cuts and layoffs, etc.

Monday June 18, 2012 1:42 Jeff Dykehouse

1:43

Jeff Dykehouse:

I'm happy doing my photography but who knows I may be able to incorporate some of my training and experience into other things too.

Monday June 18, 2012 1:43 Jeff Dykehouse

1:43

[Comment From DustinDustin: ]

I'd like to get a CCP eventually. I'm not sure if I'd ever carry day to day, but it would be nice to have the option.

Monday June 18, 2012 1:43 Dustin

1:43

Tim Martin:

Michigan has lost more law enforcement personnel than any state since 2001, according to FBI statistics

Monday June 18, 2012 1:43 Tim Martin

1:44

Jeff Dykehouse:

When I got my cpl I didn't carry at all. Mostly for transporting in my car. It's nice to have for a bunch of different reasons.

Monday June 18, 2012 1:44 Jeff Dykehouse

1:44

[Comment From DaveDave: ]

What are your thougts on the recent movement to "reexamine" the "Stand your ground" law?

Monday June 18, 2012 1:44 Dave

1:45

Jeff Dykehouse:

Don't understand what's to be examined. it's a good law and should stand.

Monday June 18, 2012 1:45 Jeff Dykehouse

1:46

[Comment From TracyCTracyC: ]

John I have mine and need to renew it this year.

Monday June 18, 2012 1:46 TracyC

1:46

John Barnes:

For those who are interested, here's where you cannot carry a concealed weapon in Michigan. The proposed legislation would allow guns in these areas, but extra training would be mandatory.

1. Schools.
2. Public or private day cares.
3. Sports arena or stadium
4. A bar.
5. Any property or facility owned or operated by a church, synagogue, mosque, temple, or other place of worship, unless the presiding
6. An entertainment facility with a seating capacity of 2,500 or more
7. A hospital
8. A dormitory or classroom of a college.
9. A Casino

Monday June 18, 2012 1:46 John Barnes

1:47

Tim Martin:

To follow up and clarify on the law enforcement positions lost...Michigan has lost the most positions BY PERCENTAGE in the nation since 2001.

Monday June 18, 2012 1:47 Tim Martin

1:47

John Barnes:

Which if any of these places should be opened to concealed weapons?

Monday June 18, 2012 1:47 John Barnes

1:48

John Agar:

Before the shooting, did you know that you were on solid ground legally?

Monday June 18, 2012 1:48 John Agar

1:49

Jeff Dykehouse:

Yes. It all seemed pretty simple at least in my mind.

Monday June 18, 2012 1:49 Jeff Dykehouse

1:50

Jeff Dykehouse:

I did start second guessing but always came back to the same conclusion.

Monday June 18, 2012 1:50 Jeff Dykehouse

1:50

[Comment From John DJohn D: ]

Which of these places do bad guys not take a gun to?

Monday June 18, 2012 1:50 John D

1:50

John Barnes:

Tracy,

In your experience, was it difficult to get a concealed license? And do you carry routinely, or only in certain situations?

Monday June 18, 2012 1:50 John Barnes

1:50

[Comment From TracyCTracyC: ]

May I point out that your able to carry at a school if dropping off or picking up your child.

Monday June 18, 2012 1:50 TracyC

1:52

Jeff Dykehouse:

You must stay inside your vehicle however.

Monday June 18, 2012 1:52 Jeff Dykehouse

1:52

[Comment From TracyCTracyC: ]

It was pretty easy. The only hard part was making the time and having the money. I don't carry all the time as I mainly go from home to work and back. My work has a no weapons policy even if they are in your car

Monday June 18, 2012 1:52 TracyC

1:53

[Comment From TracyCTracyC: ]

Yes your right Jeff.

Monday June 18, 2012 1:53 TracyC

1:54

[Comment From JohnJohn: ]

Jeff,I was a bit conffused were you a police officer before the incident or after?

Monday June 18, 2012 1:54 John

1:54

John Barnes:

Here's exactly what the state police say on the matter.

Concealed guns cannot be in "schools or school property but (a person) may carry while in a vehicle on school property while dropping off or picking up if a parent or legal guardian."

Here's a link: http://www.michigan.gov/msp/0,4643,7-123-1591_3503_4654-10947--,00.html

Monday June 18, 2012 1:54 John Barnes

1:55

Jeff Dykehouse:

After.

Monday June 18, 2012 1:55 Jeff Dykehouse

1:55

[Comment From David AndersonDavid Anderson: ]

Considering all that you went through, what would you reccomend another civillian do or not do if they find themselves in a similar situation and the shot has already been taken?

Monday June 18, 2012 1:55 David Anderson

1:56

Jeff Dykehouse:

Pretty much what I did. It wasn't anything intentional just did what the situation dictated.

Monday June 18, 2012 1:56 Jeff Dykehouse

1:56

John Agar:

Did you return to your apartment/studio and resume business after the shooting?

Monday June 18, 2012 1:56 John Agar

1:57

Jeff Dykehouse:

yes, but I took some time off. Went to a friends house for a week or so.

Monday June 18, 2012 1:57 Jeff Dykehouse

1:57

Jeff Dykehouse:

I moved to a different studio space several months later however.

Monday June 18, 2012 1:57 Jeff Dykehouse

1:57

[Comment From John DJohn D: ]

The current restricted zones only ensure that criminals know where they won't run into any opposition from people. It does not prevent criminals from carrying into those zones. How many shootings could have been a lot better off had Jeff or any other CPL carrying person were allowed to carry into those places?

Monday June 18, 2012 1:57 John D

1:59

Jeff Dykehouse:

That's true but additional training for cpl holders still makes sense to me.

Monday June 18, 2012 1:59 Jeff Dykehouse

1:59

[Comment From KenKen: ]

How many did you have to pay in legal fees throughout the entire situation?

Monday June 18, 2012 1:59 Ken

1:59

Jeff Dykehouse:

Nothing. Never talked to an attorney other than a friend who is one.

Monday June 18, 2012 1:59 Jeff Dykehouse

2:00

[Comment From DustinDustin: ]

Before all this renewed interested, how often do you think you thought about the event afterward?

Monday June 18, 2012 2:00 Dustin

2:00

Jeff Dykehouse:

Almost every day. But mostly just at night with the waking up stuff.

Monday June 18, 2012 2:00 Jeff Dykehouse

2:01

[Comment From CurtisCurtis: ]

Good for you Jeff! Hope you have moved on and forward from this incident.

Monday June 18, 2012 2:01 Curtis

2:01

Jeff Dykehouse:

Thanks Curtis!!!

Monday June 18, 2012 2:01 Jeff Dykehouse

2:02

[Comment From Edward Edward : ]

How long didi it take you to get your guns back from the police?

Monday June 18, 2012 2:02 Edward

2:03

Jeff Dykehouse:

I think it was just eight days it was after Bill Forsyth gave his opinion.

Monday June 18, 2012 2:03 Jeff Dykehouse

2:03

[Comment From John John : ]

You mentioned you had 3 children. Do they know the details of the shooting and what were there reactions?

Monday June 18, 2012 2:03 John

2:04

Jeff Dykehouse:

I spoke to them about it that next morning before they went to school.

Monday June 18, 2012 2:04 Jeff Dykehouse

2:04

Jeff Dykehouse:

I explained what happened and wanted them to be prepared for questions.

Monday June 18, 2012 2:04 Jeff Dykehouse

2:05

Jeff Dykehouse:

Thank God... on questions from anyone to the kids... not one!!

Monday June 18, 2012 2:05 Jeff Dykehouse

2:05

[Comment From TracyC TracyC : ]

Wondering if any of you know if Business owners that don't want firearms on their property have to have a sign up stating that they don't?

Monday June 18, 2012 2:05 TracyC

2:07

John Barnes:

Well, we've gone past our one-hour time limit. This has been a great chat. Thanks to everyone for a lively and informative conversation, and thanks especially to Jeff for all his assistance.

Monday June 18, 2012 2:07 John Barnes

2:08

[Comment From Mike Mike : ]

I don't want to miss the chance to thank you for sharing with all of us.

Monday June 18, 2012 2:08 Mike

2:08

Tim Martin:

Thanks Jeff!

Monday June 18, 2012 2:08 Tim Martin

2:08

[Comment From TracyC TracyC : ]

Thank you for this. God Bless you Jeff!

Monday June 18, 2012 2:08 TracyC

2:08

[Comment From AndyAndy: ]

Yes! Thanks so much.

Monday June 18, 2012 2:08 Andy

2:08

[Comment From AmazedAmazed: ]

Thank, you, Mr. Dykehouse for your candor and your courage both to defend yourself and to talk about it so eloquently. And thank you, Mr. Barnes and your reporters for giving us, the readers, the respect to tell these stories without embellishment and trusting us to make up our own minds about the facts. Pretty rare in "journalism" today.

Monday June 18, 2012 2:08 Amazed

2:08

[Comment From JohnJohn: ]

took a lot of courage ...Thanks Jeff...bet of luck!!

Monday June 18, 2012 2:08 John

2:09

Jeff Dykehouse:

Thanks everyone for the nice comments. Sorry I can't stay longer. I'll respond to emails: dykehouse@aol.com.

Monday June 18, 2012 2:09 Jeff Dykehouse

2:09

[Comment From DebDeb: ]

Well said Amazed. Blessing to you Jeff

Monday June 18, 2012 2:09 Deb

2:09

[Comment From CurtisCurtis: ]

Its too bad a worthless criminal has caused you such stress in life. He contributed nothing to society. I am sure your actions in defense of your life, as well as your family's, preserved the lives of his future victims. Again good for you! Glad you and yours are safe.

Monday June 18, 2012 2:09 Curtis

2:10