Live chat on Proposal 2 "Protect our Jobs" ballot measure
11:51
Dave Murray: 
Hello! Thank you for joining us today in the live chat about Proposal 2
Friday October 19, 2012 11:51 Dave Murray
11:51
Jen Eyer | MLive.com: 
Hi everyone. We'll get started here in just a few minutes.
Friday October 19, 2012 11:51 Jen Eyer | MLive.com
11:58
Jen Eyer | MLive.com: 
And we're getting started with our live chat on Proposal 2. I'll be moderating this chat, which means I'll be pacing the questions as we go.
Friday October 19, 2012 11:58 Jen Eyer | MLive.com
11:59
Jen Eyer | MLive.com: 
I will post comments, as long as they are civil, as they come in.
Friday October 19, 2012 11:59 Jen Eyer | MLive.com
11:59
[Comment From jamesjames: ] 
hello
Friday October 19, 2012 11:59 james
11:59
[Comment From GuestGuest: ] 
Can we call in?
Friday October 19, 2012 11:59 Guest
11:59
Jen Eyer | MLive.com: 
There is no call-in function to this chat. It is text only.
Friday October 19, 2012 11:59 Jen Eyer | MLive.com
11:59
Dave Murray: 
Hello James, and welcome.
Friday October 19, 2012 11:59 Dave Murray
12:00
Jen Eyer | MLive.com: 
Though I will say that our participants, John Armelagos on behalf of the Protect Our Jobs coalition and Jared Rodriguez of Protecting Michigan Taxpayers, are on a private conference call with myself and Dave Murray right now.
Friday October 19, 2012 12:00 Jen Eyer | MLive.com
12:00
Jen Eyer | MLive.com: 
And they are being quite civil to each other. :) Bodes well for a productive chat.
Friday October 19, 2012 12:00 Jen Eyer | MLive.com
12:00
[Comment From LorrieLorrie: ] 
hi
Friday October 19, 2012 12:00 Lorrie
12:00
[Comment From BevBev: ] 
good afternoon
Friday October 19, 2012 12:00 Bev
12:00
Dave Murray: 
Hello Lorrie and Bev. Welcome.
Friday October 19, 2012 12:00 Dave Murray
12:02
[Comment From GuestGuest: ] 
Explain how Right to work would benefit the business? Right to work is essentially to benefit the business at a disadvantage to the workers, it essentially allows workers to not pay union dues, but still receive the benefits. There is no such law or unions contract that states one must join a union, however paying dues is because they must still be represented for disciplinary purposes and will still receive the same benefits at Union workers whom pay dues. This is nothing more than a Union busting tactic as it is proven that in Right to work states, Unionism is near non existent. This is not the workers right to work, but the business right to control the workers.
Friday October 19, 2012 12:02 Guest
12:02
[Comment From ChuckChuck: ] 
Hello everyone!
Friday October 19, 2012 12:02 Chuck
12:02
[Comment From BevBev: ] 
Hello all
Friday October 19, 2012 12:02 Bev
12:02
[Comment From JohnnyJohnny: ] 
Hello
Friday October 19, 2012 12:02 Johnny
12:03
[Comment From RichRich: ] 
Hi all.
Friday October 19, 2012 12:03 Rich
12:03
[Comment From guestguest: ] 
its a good thing we wasted 3 minutes on hellos, can we get to the questions now?
Friday October 19, 2012 12:03 guest
12:03
Jen Eyer | MLive.com: 
Yes, guest. Our panelists are answering the first question now.
Friday October 19, 2012 12:03 Jen Eyer | MLive.com
12:03
John Armelagos: 
On behalf of Protect Working Families-thanks for joining us. Want to make sure everyone is clear. Prop 2 is about collective bargaining and collective bargaining only.
Friday October 19, 2012 12:03 John Armelagos
12:03
Jared Rodriguez: 
Hi guest. Proposal 2 is not about Right to Work. Proposal 2 is a proposed constitutional amendment that would overturn over 170 laws that are currently on the books that taxpayers and parents count on.
Friday October 19, 2012 12:03 Jared Rodriguez
12:03
[Comment From TravisTravis: ] 
Hi
Friday October 19, 2012 12:03 Travis
12:03
[Comment From ChuckChuck: ] 
Hello
Friday October 19, 2012 12:03 Chuck
12:04
[Comment From Bear ClawBear Claw: ] 
The supporters of Proposal 2 originally claimed they are pushing the amendment because it would override hundreds of laws passed by the legislature (MEA memo, quotes in news). Now they say they are pushing it to protect collective bargaining. Which is true? Both?
Friday October 19, 2012 12:04 Bear Claw
12:04
[Comment From ChuckChuck: ] 
are you going to transcribe their comments?
Friday October 19, 2012 12:04 Chuck
12:04
Jen Eyer | MLive.com: 
Chuck, the chat will be archived right on this page.
Friday October 19, 2012 12:04 Jen Eyer | MLive.com
12:05
Dave Murray: 
I'm also planning a story that will include some of the highlights of our discussion today.
Friday October 19, 2012 12:05 Dave Murray
12:05
John Armelagos: 
Not one court has agreed with the false argument that this would impact 170 laws. It is politically motivated speculation that has no basis in fact. Courts are a higher authority than the Ag's "opinion". Again, prop 2 is about collective bargaining rights.
Friday October 19, 2012 12:05 John Armelagos
12:05
[Comment From Ann ButlerAnn Butler: ] 
I recommend everyone lookat the new study from The Economic Policy Institute to see what erosion of collective bargaining has done to Michigan's economy:
Friday October 19, 2012 12:05 Ann Butler
12:05
[Comment From Ann ButlerAnn Butler: ] 
http://www.epi.org/publication/bp347-collective-bargaining/
Friday October 19, 2012 12:05 Ann Butler
12:05
Jared Rodriguez: 
Good question, Bear Claw. The Attorney General, the Detroit News, Detroit Free Press, the Michigan Truth Squad here on MLive and the Citizens Research Council have all said Proposal 2 would eliminate critical reforms that Michigan parents count on to keep their kids safe at school.

Even the Michigan Education Association, one of the largest financial backers of Proposal 2, published a memo from their legal department bragging that Prop 2 would overturn dozens of education laws, including the law that prevents union contracts from protecting teachers caught under the influence of drugs and alcohol at school and the law that imposes financial penalties on teachers who strike illegally.

Its important that voters understand the truth about the dangers behind Proposal 2 and that it is loaded with unintended consequences.

Friday October 19, 2012 12:05 Jared Rodriguez
12:06
John Armelagos: 
Jared-that's not true. Not a word of it. Stories that quote from the false ads being run aren't facts.
Friday October 19, 2012 12:06 John Armelagos
12:07
[Comment From ChadChad: ] 
If I vote "no" on proposal 2 will workers still have collective bargaining rights?
Friday October 19, 2012 12:07 Chad
12:07
Jared Rodriguez: 
A clarification on your point, John...

“Proposal 2’s ballot language says it will “invalidate existing or future state or local laws” and “override state laws.” The legal department for one of Prop 2’s biggest bankrollers, the MEA, even issued a legal memo bragging about the way it would invalidate dozens of common sense education laws that keep our kids safe at school.

As the media has consistently reported, the Supreme Court was asked whether or not Proposal 2 was eligible to appear on the ballot, not what effect it would have on common sense laws and reforms that keep our kids safe at school. At no point has the court ever discussed the impact Proposal 2 would have on protections for kids.
Friday October 19, 2012 12:07 Jared Rodriguez
12:07
John Armelagos: 
The false ads run by corporate special interests have been called lies by everyone from law enforcement professionals, a former Supreme Court justice, two former attorney generals and the former Governor. Prop 2 is about collective bargaining. The false ads and scare tactics need to stop. Federal law and criminal statutes have nothing to do with collective bargaining.
Friday October 19, 2012 12:07 John Armelagos
12:08
Dave Murray: 
John, can you give us an example of a claim made by opponents that you believe to be false?
Friday October 19, 2012 12:08 Dave Murray
12:08
[Comment From nancynancy: ] 
I call it the "right to be fired" for any reason
Friday October 19, 2012 12:08 nancy
12:08
Jared Rodriguez: 
Chad- absolutely. This is the largest piece of misinformation that is out there today. Collective bargaining is protected by state and federal law. It won't go away no matter what happens with Prop 2.

The simple truth is that a "NO" vote on Prop 2 changes nothing in Michigan.
Friday October 19, 2012 12:08 Jared Rodriguez
12:08
[Comment From JeanineJeanine: ] 
John, I know you are a nurse, thank you for all you do, and thanks to all the nurses, teachers, police and firefighters and other public servants. Jared, as a parent and taxpayer I count on all of them and I want them to have a voice in their work.
Friday October 19, 2012 12:08 Jeanine
12:09
John Armelagos: 
For instance: licensing requirements for bus drivers are set by federal law. It is absolutely false to assert that Prop 2 would impact this at all. The question we should be asking is "who funds these attacks?"
Friday October 19, 2012 12:09 John Armelagos
12:09
Jared Rodriguez: 
So do we, Jeanine. I'm a parent and a taxpayer, too. And thank from me, too, John! I'll just reiterate, collective bargaining is already protected by state and federal law.
Friday October 19, 2012 12:09 Jared Rodriguez
12:10
[Comment From ChuckChuck: ] 
What I would like to know, is who is funding "Protect Michigan Taxpayers?" They are spending MILLIONS on ads attacking Prop 2, I don't think its fair that we do not know who is funding these ads.
Friday October 19, 2012 12:10 Chuck
12:10
John Armelagos: 
Thanks Jeanine. All of us deserve a voice on the job
Friday October 19, 2012 12:10 John Armelagos
12:10
[Comment From MaryMary: ] 
Hi. I'm disgusted by the ads with all the lies and I hope you will be asking Jared why his organization does not denounce those, or pull them if it is funding them.
Friday October 19, 2012 12:10 Mary
12:10
[Comment From TravisTravis: ] 
According to the Federal bureau of labor, Right to Work states earn on average $5300.00 less, have a higher poverty level of 12.5% compared to 10.5%, an higher infant mortality rate of 16 % higher and work place deaths are 51% higher , as workers cannot speak on safety issues.
Friday October 19, 2012 12:10 Travis
12:11
Jared Rodriguez: 
Hi Chuck. There is a broad coalition opposed to Proposal 2 including the Michigan Association of School Boards, Michigan Sheriffs Association, Michigan Farm Bureau, Michigan Chamber, Small Business Association and over a dozen more.
Friday October 19, 2012 12:11 Jared Rodriguez
12:11
[Comment From BevBev: ] 
the ads say they are paid for by Citizens to protect the Constitution.
Friday October 19, 2012 12:11 Bev
12:12
[Comment From Ann ButlerAnn Butler: ] 
Collective bargaining can (and has been) eroded by Lansing politicians if it is not protected in the constitution.
Friday October 19, 2012 12:12 Ann Butler
12:12
Jared Rodriguez: 
We also know, according to the most recent campaign finance reports, Proposal 2 is being funded primarily by government employee unions.
Friday October 19, 2012 12:12 Jared Rodriguez
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