PA Debate Live Thread II

6:51

TL: This is the second debate live thread.

Wednesday April 16, 2008 6:51

6:52

BTD - What? an issue? Iraq? There are actually issues to discuss?

Wednesday April 16, 2008 6:52

6:53

BTD - Hillary asked about Iraq, will she really withdraw? She says yes.

Wednesday April 16, 2008 6:53

6:54

BTD It is the best interests of US, our military and Iraq that US withdraw.

Good answer obviously.

Wednesday April 16, 2008 6:54

6:54

TL: Hillary is strong here. Upon taking office she will ask Joint Chiefs to put a plan together to withdraw within 60 days.

Wednesday April 16, 2008 6:54

6:55

BTD - Gibson presses. Trhow Petraeus at her. she does not flinch. We are getting out she says.

Wednesday April 16, 2008 6:55

6:56

BTd - We have heard it before, but this is a good answer from clinton on Iraq.

Wednesday April 16, 2008 6:56

6:57

BTD - Obama same question basically. Obama says yes "because the C-i-C sets the objectives. Like Clinton, he says it is the PResident who sets the mission.

Excellent answer from Obama.

Wednesday April 16, 2008 6:57

6:58	Who Did Better on Iraq? Hillary ( 74% ) Obama ( 15% ) Tie ( 11% ) Wednesday April 16, 2008 6:58

6:59

TL: New poll up on their Iraq answers.

Wednesday April 16, 2008 6:59

7:00

TL: Now onto Iran and Israel. He will do whatever it takes to prevent them from getting nuclear weapons. He will talk to Iranis.

Wednesday April 16, 2008 7:00

7:01

TL: Obama: We can offer them carrots and sticks. He will take no options off the table when it comes to them getting nuclear weapons. That includes threats to Israel. An attack on Israel would be an attack on our strongest ally in the region. The U.S. would take appropriate action.

Wednesday April 16, 2008 7:01

7:03

BTD - Step asks should we treat an attack by Iran on Israel as an attack on Us (uses NATO analogy. Obama says first step is to make sure Iran does not obtain nuclear weapon. Will talk with Iran. throws in Hamas and Hezbollah swipe (pander much?)

Obama "an attack on Israel is an attack on our closest allies" and US would take appropriate action.

CLINTON - Ups the ante - attack on Israel would incur massive retaliation from US. but umbrella needs to be wider.

Who is the bigger hawk on Israel? Hillary. then shifts to "diplomatic engagement."

Unlike Obama, she would NOt meet with Ahmenijad, he question 9/11 veracity.

She outtoughed Obama on this answer. Is that good politics? We'll see.

Wednesday April 16, 2008 7:03

7:03	Who was better on Iran and Israel? Hillary ( 82% ) Obama ( 14% ) Tie ( 4% ) Wednesday April 16, 2008 7:03

7:04

BTD - Bottom line - Hillary projected herself as "tougher" than Obama. Is that good politics? I do not know.

Wednesday April 16, 2008 7:04

7:04

TL: We're on the economy now. Taxes.,

Wednesday April 16, 2008 7:04

7:05

BTD - No new taxes on person earning under 200,000 a year? Yes, say yes!

Clinton will defintiely roll back the Bush tax cuts. She says that she will not raise taxes on people earning less than 250k year and in fact she has tax cuts for health care, college, retirement, etc.

Wednesday April 16, 2008 7:05

7:06

BTD - Obama takes pledge and promises to cut payroll tax. good.

Wednesday April 16, 2008 7:06

7:07

TL: Hillary: very specific plan for tax cuts and no new taxes for middle class. She puts the break at those who earn more than $250k. An absolute commitment to no new middle class taxes.

Wednesday April 16, 2008 7:07

7:07

BTD - See? they are really not that different ON THE ISSUES. I am interested to see what Hillary says in response to the payroll tax reduction issue.

Wednesday April 16, 2008 7:07

7:07

TL: Obama back in professor mode, I could see him using a powerpoiint if he had one handy.

Wednesday April 16, 2008 7:07

7:08

TL: Obama: I just can't follow his train of thought. Change how business is done is Washington. Another meaningless phrase.

Wednesday April 16, 2008 7:08

7:09

TL: Capital gains tax. I feel like I'm in a classroom.

Wednesday April 16, 2008 7:09

7:09

BTD - Gibson does not understand tax policy. If J can majke sense of his absurd question, she is a better person than I.

Wednesday April 16, 2008 7:09

7:09

TL: Did Obama just weasel out of his prior statements on the capital gains tax?

Wednesday April 16, 2008 7:09

7:10

BTD - I did not understand his answer to be frank.

Wednesday April 16, 2008 7:10

7:10

TL: I don't know anything about capital gains taxes, sorry.

Wednesday April 16, 2008 7:10

7:12

BTD - Hillary is more effective in discussing the tax and economy issues imo.

Wednesday April 16, 2008 7:12

7:13

TL: Obama believes in "pay as you go." Gibson challenges him on his answer. Back to Hillary. It was better when we had an economy that lifted everyone up and we had that in the 90's. We've lost that under Bush. I don't want to take more tax money from anyone. She's much clearer on these issues. And specific. And her answer is tailored to be understood by middle class voters.

Wednesday April 16, 2008 7:13

7:13

BTD - I agree with J's assessment there.

Wednesday April 16, 2008 7:13

7:14

BTD - Good hedge by Hillary. Sounds responsible.

Wednesday April 16, 2008 7:14

7:14

TL: Hillary wouldn't raise capital gains tax above 20% if she raised it at all. She says she'd have to look at revenue situation to answer whether she'd raise them at all. She speaks in terms we can all understand.

Wednesday April 16, 2008 7:14

7:15

BTD - Obama has propsoed we raise the cap on "billioniares?" Huh?

Wednesday April 16, 2008 7:15

7:16

TL: Obama plays the social security fear card. My Bad ,Obama.

Wednesday April 16, 2008 7:16

7:16

BTD - Social Security is in CRISIS!! So sez Obama. He is SOOO wrong on this. I liked it to cut payroll taxes for poorer folks. I do NOt like it to solve the "SS crisis."

Turning to attack on Clinton not smart.

Wednesday April 16, 2008 7:16

7:16

BTD - Hllary should hit him on this.

Wednesday April 16, 2008 7:16

7:16

TL: Obama brings up a statement of Hillary that was recorded without her knowledge. Cheap shot on a non-relevant matter.

Wednesday April 16, 2008 7:16

7:17	Who Has better economic plans? Hillary ( 0% ) Obama ( 0% ) They're the same ( 0% ) Wednesday April 16, 2008 7:17

7:17	Who Has better economic plans? Hillary ( 90% ) Obama ( 7% ) They're the same ( 3% ) Wednesday April 16, 2008 7:17

7:17

BTD - Hillary sez Clinton had "solved" SS problem in the 90s. Attacks Bush. Fiscal responsibility.

Nice.

Wednesday April 16, 2008 7:17

7:19

BTD - Hillary really doing well when she hammers Obama ON THE ISSUES. that is where she can go. The second half of the debate has been quite good.

Wednesday April 16, 2008 7:19

7:23

BTD - Commercial

Wednesday April 16, 2008 7:23

7:24

BTD - Virginia Tech Anniversary

Wednesday April 16, 2008 7:24

7:24

BTD - Time to talk about guns sez Gibson.

Wednesday April 16, 2008 7:24

7:24

TL: Ugh. They can both be tough on gun crimes..

Wednesday April 16, 2008 7:24

7:25

TL: They will both say they agree with second amendment but reasonable regulation is okay.

Wednesday April 16, 2008 7:25

7:26

TL: Here comes her touting her crime plan, which to be fair, does have a lot of prevention funds in it. But it also asks for a lot of cops. Obama voted for more cops too. They will both support the assault weapons ban.

Wednesday April 16, 2008 7:26

7:26

TL: Will Obama say no one has done more to support cops than he has?

Wednesday April 16, 2008 7:26

7:27

TL: Will Hillary hit Obama for voting against the anti-gang bill? It's one of the few differences between them where I'm on his side.

Wednesday April 16, 2008 7:27

7:27

BTD - I peeked in at TPM and Marshall started insulting Clinton and then ends up bemoaning Obam's poor answers and crediting Clinton's good ones. I guess she is doing well now.

Wednesday April 16, 2008 7:27

7:28

TL: Good -- they ask Obama about DC gun law. Obama plays ignorant says he hasn't read the briefs.

Wednesday April 16, 2008 7:28

7:28

BTD - BS, there is no individual right to bear arms in the 2nd amendment!! Watch me and Jeralyn tangle on this one.

Wednesday April 16, 2008 7:28

7:29

TL: There is too and the Supreme Court will say so within months. Here's Obama on reasonable regulation.

Wednesday April 16, 2008 7:29

7:29

BTD - Obama said there was. I imagine Clinton will too. I know J thinks that. I think they are absolutely wrong,

Wednesday April 16, 2008 7:29

7:29

TL: Yes they both agree there is an individual right to bear arms. They are both right.

Wednesday April 16, 2008 7:29

7:30

BTD - This Supreme Court is wrong on the Constituion ALL the time. Hey, we were watching a "debate" and a debate broke out between the Live bloggers.

Wednesday April 16, 2008 7:30

7:30

TL: No difference between them on gun issues, but Hillary is more articularte. He says "we have to get beyond politics and see what is working." That says nothing.

Wednesday April 16, 2008 7:30

7:31

TL: Yes, lets get back to their ideas. Our's don't matter (unfortunately for us.)

Wednesday April 16, 2008 7:31

7:32

TL: Hillary says a total ban would probably not be okay but she doesn't know the facts either. They are both disingenuous on this. How could they not know this might be an issue and get brief by their staffs on it?

Wednesday April 16, 2008 7:32

7:32

BTD - I agre that Hillary discusses the issue in more understandbale ansd appealing terms. At least imo.

Wednesday April 16, 2008 7:32

7:32

TL: Hillary sticks up for sports shooters.

Wednesday April 16, 2008 7:32

7:33

BTD - Affirmative action now. I tell you, this ABC team is the anti-NBC tonight. Amazing.

Wednesday April 16, 2008 7:33

7:33	Who was right on guns? Hillary ( 69% ) Obama ( 4% ) No Difference ( 20% ) Both wrong ( 7% ) Wednesday April 16, 2008 7:33

7:36

BTD - the answers are muddles. No one wants to come out and say yes to Affirmative action. But that is smart poltics. Sort of "mend it don't end it."

Wednesday April 16, 2008 7:36

7:36

TL: Hillary is better because she speaks coversationally, she talks to us, not at us. He lectures and speaks in abstracts.

Wednesday April 16, 2008 7:36

7:37

TL: gas prices.

Wednesday April 16, 2008 7:37

7:37

BTD - Gas prices.

Hillary - we are going to investigate the gas prices because she thinks there is market manipulation, mention Enron, would open Strategic Reserve. Steals windfall profits tax from Obama - need long term energy strategy.

Laundry list approach.

Wednesday April 16, 2008 7:37

7:40

TL: My answer got eaten but Hillary had specifics. The Enron remark was with respect to "we've seen this movie before" and it's Enron -- we need to know if we are being taken advantage of.

Wednesday April 16, 2008 7:40

7:40

TL: Question to Hillary about utilizing ex-Presidents. How would she utilize Bush?

Wednesday April 16, 2008 7:40

7:40

BTD - Dumb question.

Wednesday April 16, 2008 7:40

7:41

BTd - Here's the Untiy Schtick. Ugh.

Wednesday April 16, 2008 7:41

7:41

TL: Obama says he's more apt to ask Bush I. Says Bush I had good foreign policy. Huh? Democrats don't have a monopoly on good ideas.

Wednesday April 16, 2008 7:41

7:42

Last (I hope) commercial. Comments will run over 200 here and then we'll do a post-debate thread.

Wednesday April 16, 2008 7:42

7:43	Did Hillary Make a Strong Enough Showing tonight? Yes ( 91% ) No ( 9% ) Wednesday April 16, 2008 7:43

7:47

BTD - Superdelgates. Yes, some more process from the candidates. Actually not a bad setup. why you?

Wednesday April 16, 2008 7:47

7:47

TL: Final question: How they will make the case to superdelegates.

Wednesday April 16, 2008 7:47

7:48

BTD - Hillary sez she'll say "we ned a fighter in the White house."

Which is BS, but the right ype of answer here. She'll make her actual arguments to the SDs to the SDs.

Wednesday April 16, 2008 7:48

7:48

TL: Hillary: we need a fighter back in the white house. She has a plan.

Wednesday April 16, 2008 7:48

7:49

BTD - the BS is not that she is a fighter but that she will make that pitch to the SDs. she is pitching the voters of PA.

Wednesday April 16, 2008 7:49

7:49

TL: Hillary : we will tackle the problems that have been waiting. She can't do it alone. She can only do it if she gets the support of people. It's going to challenging but it's what we must do. She will tell everyone who listens she is the person to lead.

Wednesday April 16, 2008 7:49

7:49

TL: Smart. She makes direct pitch to PA voters. Did her voice catch?

Wednesday April 16, 2008 7:49

7:51

TL: Obama. It's about politics building people up. Change happens from bottom up. Can he please answer the question rather than give a stump speech?

Wednesday April 16, 2008 7:51

7:51

BTd - Obama makes his closing statement. His best moment of the debate so far. Excellent spech.

Wednesday April 16, 2008 7:51

7:52

TL: Okay, he's answering now. He says Americans have responded in records numbers. Superdelegates will be told they have to build a new coaliton in politics.

Debate over. Thanks everyone. Come on over to the post -debate thread.

Wednesday April 16, 2008 7:52

7:53

Thank you for reading today.

Thousands of users.
Millions of readers.
Free and simple to use.
Try CoveritLive today.