From the Pulpit to the Polls:The Role of Religion in Politics

(04/24/2008)

12:45

The event has begun - Sally Steenland is introducing. "We started planning this event last fall - we knew all the speakers had books coming out, and we wanted to get them together for a discussion." Little did we know last fall that religion would be so much in the headlines. But we did know that religiion and politics has gone through many changes in the last five years. Religious progressives and moderates are working together - the word evangelical no longer means Republican.

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In June a new book of essays will be released by the center on religion in the public square. An announcement of the book will be forthcoming in the next couple of weeks.

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Moderator is Shaun Casey -

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Shaun Casey View

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E.J. Dionne, Jr. View

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He will be stimulating conversation by asking the panelists questions.
First: What has surprised you the most about religion and politics this season?
EJ. Dionne, Jr. : How much Obama has be tortured by religious accusations. He's been accused of being a Muslim, then his pastor cleared that up - I think he's probably developed an affinity for the book of Job. I'm surprised by how much we think the religious right is dying, or is dead. But if you look at John McCain and Mike Huckabee, there is support from the older groups and the newer religious groups. Even in the Rep. party, there are changes.

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Amy Sullivan View

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Amy Sullivan: Its McCain who had his religious outreach team leave in disgust - its sounds like something that would normally happen with a dem. team. We have a Rep. nominee who is not on the best of terms with the "religious right"
We now have a Dem. nominee (whoever it may be) who is much more comforatble talking about his.her faith, has a much more sophistcated outreach to religious voters... given where we were 4 years ago is shocking...miraculous! (audience laughs)

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Jim Wallis View

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Jim Wallis: I think for me, the surprise is, when something you believed in and worked for and hoped for happened before you thought it would. The evangelical agenda has dramatically changed - I never thought it would happen this fast. Health care and Iraq is now polling higher than abortion and death penalty.
I've been shocked that so many on the religious right are wanting to dialogue with those of us on the progressive side... CBS poll had povery polling higher than abortion and gay marriage. Even the war - why should followers of the Prince of Peace be so easy to convince into war?

Thursday April 24, 2008 12:55

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"A slow earthquake" - the change of the evangelicals. They are not dead, they're not gone. They are in such disarray - they're not sure what to do. Tony Perkins even said the evangelical agenda is much broader than it used to be. Its a seismic shift.

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Casey: EJ, you say in your book - there is no Catholic vote, AND the Catholic vote is very important. How do you think it will affect the general election?

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Dionne - There is no Catholic vote, because they are not one monolithic group. They are a diverse group. Roughly 20% of the Catholic vote is up for grabs. Rove was right in targeting that. Catholics almost inevitably end up voting for the winner. In many ways Catholics are cross pressured. In many ways, it looked like the Church was supporting one side in the last election. Catholic social doctrine is strong on abortion, but also strong on caring for the poor. Catholics themselves are often torn between these two teachings. They are a swing group, maddening to political strategists.

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Regarding PA - both Clinton and Obama have spoken in many innovative ways about religion. Younger Catholics (under 45) voted like white protestants. Obama is particularly strong with non-religious voters. But when you compare Catholics and Protestants (under 45) there isnt much difference. There is still a difference inthe over 45 religious set.

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Sullivan: To add... when you look at the Catholic numbers, and control for race, class status, etc. they look just like other voters. Religion is still a key factor, but there has been a "leveling of the praying field" For a long time there have been religious voters who have voted Rep. by default because they feel they've been understood. But once they do, they still care about the same issues everyone else does.

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Wallis: The big change is inthe news rooms. Not long ago, the religious issues were abortion and gay marriage. Now the religious issues include climate change, health care, Iraq....when you take off the "religious" label....religious will still be a factor, but in a new way.

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Dionne: We tend to miss turning points when we are in them. In 1980 something new began (emergence of religious influence in politics) and I think something is happening in 2008.

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Casey: Do you see the increase in voter turnout as success in moving religious voters to both parties?

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Sullivan: Its hard to flesh out - a lot of the numbers are driven by the younger voters. Many people are registering for the first time, geting involved.
Wallis: There are emerging, very successful Get Out the Vote campaigns for Obama.

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Dionne - I would bet anyone in the room that 1) evangelicals will still vote overwhelmingly Republican. But it makes an enormous difference in the public dialogue if there is a "religious war"
Rick Warren is definately a conservative person on issues, but he invited Obama to his church to talk about AIDS, and he got a lot of flack for that. He was asked are you for the right wing or the left wing, and he answered, "I;m for the whole bird."

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Sullivan: There are two long term effects of this - for the faithful, and for the political side. Religious are syaing, we're not keen on being taken for granted by the Reps, but we're not keen on being taken for granted by the Dem either. Its not as if they've gone from Rep evangelicals to Dem evangelicals, they're just evangelicals. That gives them quite a bit of power.
Political side- parties are having to sit down with people and say, "hey, we haven't atlked in dcades, talk to us." It didn;t make evangelicals go and vote Dem, ut it did result in the pastors NOT going back to their pulpits and telling their congregations it was their Christian duty to vote Rep. It has softened the war.

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Wallis - Dems should not count these as sure things. Remember, MLK Jr never supported a party or candidate, he asked them to support the issues.

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Casey: What will they do?

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Dionne - The younger evangelicals are no less pro-life anti-abortion, but their agenda includes things like climate change. The African American church , on the whole, has been particularly supportive of the Dems, and the religious right was largely a response to that. There are many voters who do not come from homogenous churches.

Thursday April 24, 2008 1:17

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Sullivan - what interesting is how the media is reacting to this change. I fear that we (media) are not doing best by religion or politics. I have tremendous respect for Faith in Public Life, and I think the media hijacked it. There were some smart questions - like "what are your first priniples?" However, if you listened to the moderators, the questions were things like "Ha Mrs. Clinotn ever felt the Holy Spirit move her? What are your favorite Bible stories? Do you believe the Genesis creation story?" Not only are those irrelevant, it also seems to me to be a religious test. What is McCain HAD showed up?

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Wallis- We did an event with CNN and the exact same thing. The questions from the audience were terrific and the moderator made me grimace. The media may be the last frontier here.
At a religious event in Ohio, there were three major calls:
1- call to Jesus
2- call for Columbus to be your parish - being responsible to this city.
3- call to justice
The pastors wanted a real change in the perception of Christianity.
If the cultural change continues, it has real implications for politics.

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Questions from the audience.

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Could an athiest win the presidency?
Sullivan - not yet, according to polling. It may be that they hear athiest and think they are hostile to religion. We've certainly had "functionally athiest" presidents. It has a lot to do with how people think about the term.
I think its possible, but its tied up in the ongoing reformation. For decades we've had 1 model on who is religious - a conservative, christian model. Now we are starting to see not just a broadening of the issues, but who can be religious, and then who can be moral. I reiterate that the religious don't have a monopoly on morality.

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Dionne -there is a feeling in ways that there is athiest doctrine that is prejudice against believers. There is only one open athiest in Congress (Star from CA). I wonder if we could elect a president that would not discuss their religion. I'm torn - I think it is useful information to voters, but I'm wary of religious tests.

Wallis- One thing that is interesting is that I'm hearing evangelicals thinking Obama and Hillary are overtly more religious than McCain, and they are wondering if they can rely on McCain's moral compass.

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Question: How do you look back just 4 years ago? Was the election of 2004 an anamoly?
Sullivan: It was definatley a low point, in many ways (chuckles). We saw members of the Catholic community get involved in strange ways. We saw attitudes like, you don't talk to people who disagree with you on abortion or gay marriage issues. At one point some organizers were tryng to get together with the Kerry camp - they had heard he was a "bad Catholic" and they wanted to talk and see what was going on. And when they approached the Kerry campaign, the answer was "we don't do white churches."

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Wallis: It was a low point for Dems, but a culmination for the religious. There was a whole rise of progressive religion right after the election. There was a new awareness in the religious community, but also a growing wisdom from the Dems. It taught the Dems some lessons and it taught the country, we need to have an alternative to the religious right.

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Dionne - I joke that many American discovered God in the exit polls. (audience laughs)
I think the great tragedy of Kerry - over time after the election, he came to speak on these issues....he gave a talk that was quite powerful, and I asked him if you gave this talk in June 2004, would you be sitting in the WhiteHouse now?
I don't think politicians should fake religion, bu they should be true to what they are.

Thursday April 24, 2008 1:38

1:40

Question-
A lot of the issues that are rising up, I'd like to address "torture" - how will this issue play, especially with McCain being a torture survivor?
Wallis: Torture has become a big issue. Part of the moral revulsion with torture is responsible for Bush's decline. If you had a candidate who was defending Bush's stance if would be a factor.
Dionne; Achieving moral concensus on this would be very useful.

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1:49

Question- If we agree evangelicals are moving, how will they affect/influence be on agendas?
Dionne - One area a lot of us have thought about is abortion. Often its people on the right that say don't fall into fads and fashions and its the lef that say reject the rusted traditions. I think we can open a new conversation - I think we can acknowledge that Roe v Wade isn't going anywhere, and it wouldn't be hard for even Progressives to say we are having too many abortions in this country. I think we can come together in saying, lets be proactive and work on preventing unwanted pregnancies.
Wallis- I think we should press Dem to call for abortion reduction to be a party plank - I'm not calling for ilegalization, but a push for reduction. There were "compassionate conservative" who kept losing over and over again in the Bush admin. There are plenty who feel disenfranchised in the Rep party. The Rep. party is not being influenced by the compassionate conservative. Huckabee is one, but he didn't do well with the Rep party. I don't see the establishment making these changes.

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Questions- Some conservatives are disking climate change issues by saying "we are MORE moral" by caring for the economy rather than the climate change.
Sullivan- I think it shows us something that we are now hearing what's "more religious" and who is "more moral." I don't like it, but it shows us that the rules are changing. I think and important thing for both Rep and Dem to remember, you don't have to win over everybody. What struck me when researching my book is the number of opportunities the Dems missed. Ex. Dukakis repeatedly turned down invitations to speak at Catholic univeristies, perhaps to avoid uncomfortable conversations about abortion, but he missed an ooportunity to hear some real concerns from real voters.
Dionne - I think its not surprising that people who are not supporting climate change to continue to not support climate change.
Wallis- Its interesting, too, Im hearing people say they are interested in climate change in how it affects the poor.

Thursday April 24, 2008 1:55

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Final questions: What has pleased you most about these changes?
Sulivan - I grew up with pictures of Jesus and Bobby Kennedy on the walls, and its very natural to me to have the religious and political identities be linked. What has really struck me is the personal responses I've gotten about these two identities (being liberal and evangelical). After making that public in an op-ed, I received hundeds of emails and it was 10-1 saying things like "thank you!.'

Thursday April 24, 2008 1:59

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Dionne - Three things. 1) my mother in law read the book twice and loved it! 2) the book was reviewd in the NYT, 3) people are less surprised than they would have been 10 years ago
Wallis- for me, the most hopeful thing was the book tour and the new/next generation. At all the school they ran out of chairs. People would call it a "younger than usual crowd." There's a generation of 20somethings who consider themselves new abolitionists. I think we might be coming upon a new awakening. We're not there yet. But my hope and my prayer is that we are changing politics to make social concerns part of the political agenda. Finally the hope of these movements is more important than who wins and who loses.

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Souled Out View

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Souled Out

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The Great Awakening View

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