The Big Debate: Live Blog(06/09/2008) 
12:20
Welcome to The Big Debate. The event will start at 12.30.

This liveblog is being run by Pete Ashton. It's appearing behind the panelists and I'll be adding your comments to it.
Video of the event is being streamed at http://alpha.bambuser.com/channel/birminghampost where you can leave comments.
We're tracking Twitter posts with #bigdebate in them which will be added to the blog as appropriate:
http://summize.com/search?q=bigdebate
Monday June 9, 2008 12:20 
12:36
The panel is chaired by Rory Cellan-Jones of the BBC who may well be twittering at http://twitter.com/ruskin147
Monday June 9, 2008 12:36 
12:37
While we're waiting for the audience to stream in here are some biogs of the panelists.
Monday June 9, 2008 12:37 
12:37

Rory Cellan-Jones

Starting his BBC career as a researcher on the Leeds edition of Look North, he then worked in the London TV newsroom for three years before getting his first on-screen role at BBC Wales. He later transferred to London and became the business and economics correspondent. After the dot com crash of 2000, he wrote the book "Dot.bomb". Since January 2007, Cellan-Jones has been the BBC's Technology Correspondent with the job of expanding the BBC's coverage of new media and telecoms, and the cultural impact of the Internet.
In April 2007 he launched Stop the NUJ boycott, "a campaign for a ballot of NUJ members about the union's policy on a boycott of Israeli goods." According to the site, he and/or others sent the following motion to the general secretary of Britain's National Union of Journalists:
As BBC journalists and NUJ members we are dismayed at the passing of a motion at ADM calling for a boycott of Israeli goods. As members of a corporation which prides itself on providing impartial news coverage, we cannot associate ourselves with a move which involves taking sides in any conflict. We call on the union to hold a ballot of all members to see whether they support the view taken at ADM on an issue which could have a profound effect on the way all British journalists are viewed at home and abroad.

Cellan-Jones is married to BBC Trustee Diane Coyle, a former adviser to HM Treasury and author of Sex, Drugs and Economics.
Monday June 9, 2008 12:37 
12:38

Anthony Rose joined the BBC in September 2007 as Head of Digital Media Technology within the corporation’s Future Media & Technology department. Anthony heads up the BBC’s iPlayer project, and is responsible for delivering the next generation of the BBC iPlayer, as well as realising BBC Future Media & Technology’s plans to create a unified embedded media experience across its online properties.

Anthony joined the BBC from Kazaa/Altnet where he was Chief Technology Officer, responsible for their end-to-end services.   During his six years with the organisation Anthony gained credit for his work on a host of impressive projects and patents, including P2P networks, DRM based content publishing and social networking services.   Prior to joining Kazaa/Altnet Anthony was Vice President for Technology at Sega Australia New Developments.

Monday June 9, 2008 12:38 
12:38

Chris Cooke is Managing Director of UnLimited Media, a London based media and marketing company and Editor of its two main media platforms, CMU and ThreeWeeks.  

Chris co-founded CMU in 1998 with the aim of bringing together everyone who works in music. Since 2002 this has been done through the CMU Daily,  a free e-bulletin read by over 13,000 music people daily, and providing a concise, independent and  irreverent round up of everything that has happening in music, the music business and the music media. As Editor of CMU, Chris is a leading expert on the music business, and often comments on developments in the industry for the likes of Radio 4, Radio 5 Live, News 24, Sky News and CNN.  

Chris co-founded ThreeWeeks in 1996 with the aim of providing the most comprehensive coverage of the Edinburgh Festival, the largest arts festival on the planet, while offering young people a totally unique media training programme. Each August over 100 students take part in the ThreeWeeks progamme, who between them review over 1500 shows. Their coverage is published through a free newspaper, daily reviews sheet, website, e-bulletin, radio show and podcasts.  

Chris also heads up UnLimited's design, content and marketing divisions, and has worked for a wide range of brands including Orange, Tiger Beer, Sony PlayStation, Motorola and Paramount Comedy Channel. He's also managed music partnership projects for various national newspapers involving the likes of The Killers, Kasabian, Mylo, Brian Wilson, Blondie, Oasis, The Stranglers and Pete Tong, and has recently helped develop and launch unicornjobs.com, a new graduate careers website.

Monday June 9, 2008 12:38 
12:38

Dr Doug Williams is project director, leading large collaborative and interdisciplinary research projects for BT that address the development of new communication and media applications that can be delivered over broadband.

Doug has led research on the emergence of convergent forms of media including the project NM2 that led to the world first broadcast of ShapeShifting media, in which viewers were given the power to interact with, and hence shape, the emerging narrative of a TV drama in real time. Previously he specialised in optical fibre design, a topic in which he holds a PhD and on which he has published widely.

Monday June 9, 2008 12:38 
12:39
Joanna Geary is a young digital journalist using social media to build communities around regional newspapers. She started her career at The Birmingham Post as a business journalist and, since then, has gone on to design build and maintain the newspaper's new blogging platform bringing together more than 30 journalists, industry leaders, academics and experienced bloggers - a first of its kind for UK regional newspapers. She has also launched The Birmingham Post's new news, business, sport and lifestyle feeds on micro-blogging service Twitter.
Monday June 9, 2008 12:39 
12:41
Panel are on stage. Marc Reeves is introducing.
Monday June 9, 2008 12:41 
12:42
Year of firsts for Birmingham Post. Increased readership on website. More readers online than read the paper itself.
Monday June 9, 2008 12:42 
12:42
(Marc is editor of the Post)
Monday June 9, 2008 12:42 
12:43
Intro from (missed his name) from ICC.
Monday June 9, 2008 12:43 
12:44
Paul Tandy from ICC. (Thanks Kevin Rapley)
Monday June 9, 2008 12:44 
12:45
Rory introducing.
Monday June 9, 2008 12:45 
12:46
No powerpoint pomised.
Monday June 9, 2008 12:46 
12:46
We're on the big screen! Not perfectly aligned though. Erk!
Monday June 9, 2008 12:46 
12:47
How far have we got with digital over the last five years?
Monday June 9, 2008 12:47 
12:47
What are audiences doign with digital tools?
Monday June 9, 2008 12:47 
12:47
Is this a mass movement of the preserve of a small but noisy digital clique?
Monday June 9, 2008 12:47 
12:48
Is this a short blip? Can YouTube be captured by big media?
Monday June 9, 2008 12:48 
12:49
Are old media (BBC, Birmingham Post) moving into blogosphere going to change things?
Monday June 9, 2008 12:49 
12:49
Quanitity over quality?
Monday June 9, 2008 12:49 
12:49
Who is in change of social web? Does it change the balance of power?

Monday June 9, 2008 12:49 
12:50
From Twitter:
bounder: digital uptopia doesn't preculde real life does it?
Monday June 9, 2008 12:50 
12:54
Chris Cooke about to talk.

Particularly excited about interactivity.
Monday June 9, 2008 12:54 
12:54
Wearing various hats. Published magazines and does branding.
Monday June 9, 2008 12:54 
12:55
Links mainstream cultural world and grassroots activties.
Monday June 9, 2008 12:55 
12:55
Most exciting thing about internet is it is part of this role.
Monday June 9, 2008 12:55 
12:55
[Comment From BilalBilal: ] 
Big media is finding it/going to find it hard to move into social web - the power on the web lies more with the user than the provider.
Monday June 9, 2008 12:55 Bilal
12:56
Had first applicant born in 1990. Big shock.
Monday June 9, 2008 12:56 
12:56
What was it like being born in 1990? Teenage years from 2003 - 2008
Monday June 9, 2008 12:56 
12:56
When Chris was teenager he did fanzines.
Monday June 9, 2008 12:56 
12:57
If he was there now he could compete with any media player in the world.
Monday June 9, 2008 12:57 
12:57
Young creative people have power as never before.
Monday June 9, 2008 12:57 
12:58
Can have permanent home where people can connect with me free of charge to showcase work to potential fans, audiences but also investors.
Monday June 9, 2008 12:58 
12:58
However, not all good news.
Monday June 9, 2008 12:58 
12:59
Maintaining online presence takes time. Making music isn't enough. MySpace, Youtube, emaining, etc. Time consuming.
Monday June 9, 2008 12:59 
1:00
Huge temptation to give away work. In some ways right to, but at what point do you stop and charge? Where to draw line?
Monday June 9, 2008 1:00 
1:00
Back to linking grassroots with big companies.
Monday June 9, 2008 1:00 
1:00
Very much at start of internet revolution. Very hard to answer Power or Powerles question .
Monday June 9, 2008 1:00 
1:00
[Comment From Kevin RapleyKevin Rapley: ] 
All media must become digital in order to survive in our era of communication. B2B, B2C and now we have the power of C2C, consumers talking about brands. PR professionals appear to be making the leap with the number of digital PR agencies. Media that does not join in the conversation and listen to their public will inevitably ge tleft behind.
Monday June 9, 2008 1:00 Kevin Rapley
1:01
Internet primarily a launch pad at the moment. Big media repackages.
Monday June 9, 2008 1:01 
1:01
Question is how to use Internet as a means to an end. Not as a lauch pad but as the environment for everything.
Monday June 9, 2008 1:01 
1:02
Where is the business model?
Monday June 9, 2008 1:02 
1:02
Very optimistic. Issues will solve themselves.
Monday June 9, 2008 1:02 
1:02
[Comment From BilalBilal: ] 
I don't think there is a business model. People have been succesful on the internet in 1001 ways.
Monday June 9, 2008 1:02 Bilal
1:03
Doesn't think big players will spoil everything. Little guy can rise up and take control.
Monday June 9, 2008 1:03 
1:03
Chaotic, difficult time for next few years as becomes a sustainable market place.
Monday June 9, 2008 1:03 
1:03
Chris ends.
Monday June 9, 2008 1:03 
1:03
[Comment From MarkMark: ] 
there is not *one* business model and the rush by big media to monitize will be another nail in their already nailgunned coffins
Monday June 9, 2008 1:03 Mark
1:04
Joanna Geary about to talk.
Monday June 9, 2008 1:04 
1:05
[Comment From Kevin RapleyKevin Rapley: ] 
Or Twitter can empower your message and connections
Monday June 9, 2008 1:05 Kevin Rapley
1:06
From PoV of regional newspaper journalism
Monday June 9, 2008 1:06 
1:07
Digital Divide. Social and geographical difference between those who have access to internet.
Monday June 9, 2008 1:07 
1:07
Work being done on that. But there's another power struggle going on.
Monday June 9, 2008 1:07 
1:08
50% have broadband. 30% have accessed TV online.
Monday June 9, 2008 1:08 
1:08
1/3 of people in Burm accessing internet over mobile phones.
Monday June 9, 2008 1:08 
1:08
Not just accessing content, have ability to create content as well.
Monday June 9, 2008 1:08 
1:08
Two big things affecting us.
Monday June 9, 2008 1:08 
1:09
Aggregation of news by Google News and Yahoo.
Monday June 9, 2008 1:09 
1:09
Rise of local grassroots groups and individuals setting up own websites.
Monday June 9, 2008 1:09 
1:09
In middle is the local press.
Monday June 9, 2008 1:09 
1:09
As web has expanded, need for middlemen news has contracted.
Monday June 9, 2008 1:09 
1:10
Has been predicted for years.
Monday June 9, 2008 1:10 
1:10
[Comment From Mark SteadmanMark Steadman: ] 
Like Jo's comment about communicating in language that is "important to them"
Monday June 9, 2008 1:10 Mark Steadman
1:10
Mainstream media's impression of blogs - not overly keen on them. Not reliable, untrustworthy.
Monday June 9, 2008 1:10 
1:11
[Comment From BilalBilal: ] 
Thought Google would come up at some point.
Monday June 9, 2008 1:11 Bilal
1:11
[Comment From Kevin RapleyKevin Rapley: ] 
I would say that search has evolved too. People do not trust search due to the possibilities to influence rankings. We now have social searching such as Mahalo.com whereby we get just the first few results as chosen to be the best by the community.
Monday June 9, 2008 1:11 Kevin Rapley
1:11
Blogs are a platform. Only as good as authors make them.
Monday June 9, 2008 1:11 
1:11
Lots of rubbsih on web, but also on TV and newspapers.
Monday June 9, 2008 1:11 
1:12
Example. The Frontline Blog.
Monday June 9, 2008 1:12 
1:12
(That's a good one, btw)
Monday June 9, 2008 1:12 
1:12
http://fromthefrontline.co.uk/blogs/
Monday June 9, 2008 1:12 
1:12
Mentions Created in Birmingham. Made her sick.
Monday June 9, 2008 1:12 
1:13
Collecting all information online and off on a blog in a space that enabled conversation.
Monday June 9, 2008 1:13 
1:13
Felt wasn't a space in media so created space online.
Eyeopener
Monday June 9, 2008 1:13 
1:13
[Comment From Kevin RapleyKevin Rapley: ] 
We can filter our blog reading by just not reading the crud. We can aggregate and choose what we wish to read and even get valuable referrals to good blog reads through our own social network
Monday June 9, 2008 1:13 Kevin Rapley
1:13
Not just about broadcasting. Also had conversation.
Monday June 9, 2008 1:13 
1:14
In world where we had control over info would tell disgruntled to bugger off and they disapeared. Now they set up their own media.
Monday June 9, 2008 1:14 
1:15
Can press survive in digital age?
Monday June 9, 2008 1:15 
1:15
Will see power erode, but were we supposed to have this power?
Monday June 9, 2008 1:15 
1:15
Industry is forced to go back and be representative
Monday June 9, 2008 1:15 
1:15
Have small window of time to do this.
Monday June 9, 2008 1:15 
1:15
[Comment From Live BrumLive Brum: ] 
We may not need 'paper' in future but will always need editors and filters
Monday June 9, 2008 1:15 Live Brum
1:16
Still have brand, stil have resonance amongst communities.
Monday June 9, 2008 1:16 
1:16
How do you get people to listen to you? Trust. news orgs still have trust.
Monday June 9, 2008 1:16 
1:16
[Comment From MarkMark: ] 
Jo making some good points. Newspapers have to understand that the no longer own the news!
Monday June 9, 2008 1:16 Mark
1:16
[Comment From BilalBilal: ] 
'representative' is exactly what the industry should be.
Monday June 9, 2008 1:16 Bilal
1:17
Work with people creating stuff online.
Monday June 9, 2008 1:17 
1:17
Have to acknowledge we don't own the news.
Monday June 9, 2008 1:17 
1:17
Have conversation with and listen to communities.
Monday June 9, 2008 1:17 
1:17
[Comment From Jo IndJo Ind: ] 
How can I be expected to get on with my work while such an interesting conversation is going on?
Monday June 9, 2008 1:17 Jo Ind
1:17
[Comment From Mark SteadmanMark Steadman: ] 
Broadcasters don't control or own the news
Monday June 9, 2008 1:17 Mark Steadman
1:18
Can still be relevant even if don't have power and monopoly.
Monday June 9, 2008 1:18 
1:18
Attitude is starting to shift.
Monday June 9, 2008 1:18 
1:18
Don't think will die, but maybe deserve to die.
Monday June 9, 2008 1:18 
1:18
[Comment From Kevin RapleyKevin Rapley: ] 
The mass media do not always find niches. Blogging forms niches whereby you are able to reach others that are interested in the same thing as you. You can also be the authority on this subject as you will know more on the subject than a journalist tasked with reporting on that subject.
Monday June 9, 2008 1:18 Kevin Rapley
1:19
Doug Williams about to talk.
Monday June 9, 2008 1:19 
1:20
Shape-shifting media. In context of New Generation Arts festival.
Monday June 9, 2008 1:20 
1:21
What's going to happen with entertainment, narative based media.
Monday June 9, 2008 1:21 
1:21
Conclusion - fundamental changes.
Monday June 9, 2008 1:21 
1:21
Different storytelling in future. How can we make money from that?
Monday June 9, 2008 1:21 
1:21
[Comment From BilalBilal: ] 
Very thought provoking stuff from Jo.
Monday June 9, 2008 1:21 Bilal
1:22
Historical analogy.
Monday June 9, 2008 1:22 
1:22
Every time new platform, new form of storytelling.
Monday June 9, 2008 1:22 
1:22
Court Jesters. Adjusted story based on what audience was interested in. Face to face, shaped by reactions of audiences.
Monday June 9, 2008 1:22 
1:23
Theatres ossified story. Script, actors, costumes, plays.
Monday June 9, 2008 1:23 
1:23
[Comment From Neil BensonNeil Benson: ] 
In the sea of dross online, the regional press can be one of the beacons of quality by organising good content from many local sources, covering a wealth of niches.
Monday June 9, 2008 1:23 Neil Benson
1:23
First Euopean novel emerges.
Monday June 9, 2008 1:23 
1:23
Different representations: page, chapters. Fucntion of the distribution platform.
Monday June 9, 2008 1:23 
1:24
1880s. Film of train coming into platform.
Monday June 9, 2008 1:24 
1:24
Not a story. Stories emerged 50 years later.
Monday June 9, 2008 1:24 
1:24
Television has its own storytelling forms unique to TV.
Monday June 9, 2008 1:24 
1:25
Now in Internet age. Production costs have gone down.
Monday June 9, 2008 1:25 
1:25
Largely distributing old media. Downloading TV programming. Changing time and place of watching.
Monday June 9, 2008 1:25 
1:25
Not a new form of storytelling.
Monday June 9, 2008 1:25 
1:26
Internet doesn't need to broadcast, ossify a story.
Monday June 9, 2008 1:26 
1:26
[Comment From Jo IndJo Ind: ] 
I like the idea of an editor as court jester....
Monday June 9, 2008 1:26 Jo Ind
1:26
Potentially a new artistic form that hasn't yet emerged.
Monday June 9, 2008 1:26 
1:26
[Comment From Julia GilbertJulia Gilbert: ] 
I was more inclined to trust online content from sources that I already knew offline, e.g. press, BBC, but as time goes on, I am starting to know which online-only sources to trust too
Monday June 9, 2008 1:26 Julia Gilbert
1:26
How do you write a story that adapts?
Monday June 9, 2008 1:26 
1:27
How do you make sure edits are good? How you scale to millions of people?
Monday June 9, 2008 1:27 
1:27
Looking a prototypes of shape shifting media.
Monday June 9, 2008 1:27 
1:28
Drama "Accidental Lovers" where people text in and have conversation with characters.
Monday June 9, 2008 1:28 
1:28
[Comment From Toby BarnesToby Barnes: ] 
MMO's & Multiplayer games have solved these problems
Monday June 9, 2008 1:28 Toby Barnes
1:28
[Comment From Toby BarnesToby Barnes: ] 
Has he just missed the complete video game industry ?
Monday June 9, 2008 1:28 Toby Barnes
1:29
If audience is involved then they're empowered.
Monday June 9, 2008 1:29 
1:29
Optimistic from an artistic POV
Monday June 9, 2008 1:29 
1:29
Not quite a game, not quite a film. Somewhere inbetween.
Monday June 9, 2008 1:29 
1:30
Shape Shifting follows from time shifting and space shifting.
Monday June 9, 2008 1:30 
1:30
Ends.
Monday June 9, 2008 1:30 
1:30
[Comment From Kevin RapleyKevin Rapley: ] 
Online content and communications can be refined. We do not need to go through the rigorous editing checks before content can be put out to the masses. It is not a traditional advert or written white paper or press release. The message can be changed, shaped and refined.
Monday June 9, 2008 1:30 Kevin Rapley
1:30
[Comment From Toby BarnesToby Barnes: ] 
ARH - games and films are two completely different forms of media - not two ends of a spectrum
Monday June 9, 2008 1:30 Toby Barnes
1:31
If you're just joining us...

This liveblog is being run by Pete Ashton. It's appearing behind the panelists and I'll be adding your comments to it.
Video of the event is being streamed at http://alpha.bambuser.com/channel/birminghampost where you can leave comments.
We're tracking Twitter posts with #bigdebate in them here:
http://summize.com/search?q=bigdebate

Monday June 9, 2008 1:31 
1:31
Anthony Rose from BBC iPlayer is on next.
Monday June 9, 2008 1:31 
1:31
Show of hands for iPlayer usage. Over half the room I reckon.
Monday June 9, 2008 1:31 
1:32
[Comment From Kevin RapleyKevin Rapley: ] 
I use it, and also 4OD and ITV equiv
Monday June 9, 2008 1:32 Kevin Rapley
1:32
Explore how Internet given more choice and how people need to exploit that wisely.
Monday June 9, 2008 1:32 
1:33
History. Church, BBC one channel, more broadcasters, internet.
Monday June 9, 2008 1:33 
1:33
Instead of 50 channels, now 10,000,000 websites.
Monday June 9, 2008 1:33 
1:33
How to sort good from bad.
Monday June 9, 2008 1:33 
1:34
BBC used to world with few channels and schedules. Had control.
Monday June 9, 2008 1:34 
1:34
iPlayer has mesed this up. 500 programs from BBC and you can chose.
Monday June 9, 2008 1:34 
1:35
Last year, BBC choses what's good for you. This year you chose. Next year friends chose for you.
Monday June 9, 2008 1:35 
1:35
iPlayer presented chalenge for BBC.
Monday June 9, 2008 1:35 
1:36
[Comment From MarkMark: ] 
Bittorrent it and give real global choice
Monday June 9, 2008 1:36 Mark
1:36
[Comment From Andy MabbettAndy Mabbett: ] 
Little known effect of increasing choice of on-line channels - decline of audience for traditional societies (camera clubs, ornithological groups, gardening clubs, etc.) whose members are increasingly elderly, with few younger people joining.
Monday June 9, 2008 1:36 Andy Mabbett
1:36
Power changed in iPlayer land as people chose what appeared on home page in Top Viewed.
Monday June 9, 2008 1:36 
1:37
Next comes personalisation.
Monday June 9, 2008 1:37 
1:37
Demographics changed to demographic on ONE.
Monday June 9, 2008 1:37 
1:37
on = of
Monday June 9, 2008 1:37 
1:37
Problem of choice.
Monday June 9, 2008 1:37 
1:38
Twitter: markmedia: does everyone in every digital debate have to rehash the history of media? Or am I just grumpy?
Monday June 9, 2008 1:38 
1:38
Filters can be blogs (eg boingboing) or friends.
Monday June 9, 2008 1:38 
1:38
[Comment From Kevin RapleyKevin Rapley: ] 
Online programme scheduling through the likes of the iplayer is causing a major headache for the ISP's too. Some ISP's have already approached the BBC for reimbursing them for money lost due to bandwidth increases. The ISP's choose to give no upper limit on bandwidth so why is it the BBC's problem?
Monday June 9, 2008 1:38 Kevin Rapley
1:39
Need to exercise choice wisely.
Monday June 9, 2008 1:39 
1:39
More choice you hav, less happiness you have.
Monday June 9, 2008 1:39 
1:40
Sorts of people.
1) Will pick first thing that meets criteria.
2) Will look through whole list. Less happy. There is no best one and now you're stuck.
Monday June 9, 2008 1:40 
1:40
[Comment From Andy MabbettAndy Mabbett: ] 
It's not either-or; it's the long tail: 80% of stuff will be on main suppliers sites (BBC, newspapers); 20% on smaller, independent websites. Traditional media effectively denies the 20%.
Monday June 9, 2008 1:40 Andy Mabbett
1:41
Churchill: no such things as public opinion, only published opinion.
Monday June 9, 2008 1:41 
1:42
With all internet stuff going on, society still pretty much the same as ever.
Monday June 9, 2008 1:42 
1:42
Things aren't going to change as much as we think.
Monday June 9, 2008 1:42 
1:42
Still going to trust authorities to avoid too much choice.
Andy ends.
Monday June 9, 2008 1:42 
1:42
[Comment From Kevin RapleyKevin Rapley: ] 
Just for those that have not heard of the long tail before mentioned by Andrew Mabbett see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_long_tail
Monday June 9, 2008 1:42 Kevin Rapley
1:42
Summing up.
Monday June 9, 2008 1:42 
1:43
I'm gonna take a breather....
Monday June 9, 2008 1:43 
1:44
twitter:
pigsonthewing: nobody seems to remember, or at least they don't acknowledge, Usenet (and earlier, BBSs) and their liberating role.
RussL: Whole lot of stating of the obvious going on.

Monday June 9, 2008 1:44 
1:45
If you're just joining us...
This liveblog is being run by Pete Ashton. It's appearing behind the panelists and I'll be adding your comments to it.
Video of the event is being streamed at http://alpha.bambuser.com/channel/birminghampost where you can leave comments.
We're tracking Twitter posts with #bigdebate in them here:
http://summize.com/search?q=bigdebate

Monday June 9, 2008 1:45 
1:46
Anthony - any dangers in BBC retreating from Reithian mission of telling people what's good for them?
Monday June 9, 2008 1:46 
1:46
[Comment From MarkMark: ] 
From bambuser: If the dinosaurs had 'got their act together', still probably wouldn't've stopped the comet...
Monday June 9, 2008 1:46 Mark
1:47
BBC needs to be place to come to becuase it's trusted rather than because it's the only place.
Monday June 9, 2008 1:47 
1:47
Jo - from newspapers POV. Is internet force for dumbing up or down?
Monday June 9, 2008 1:47 
1:48
Internet force for what we make it for.
Monday June 9, 2008 1:48 
1:48
Need to understand how audience see your newspaper.
Monday June 9, 2008 1:48 
1:50
Popular stories (man marries goat) not reason people come to news sites.
Monday June 9, 2008 1:50 
1:50
Chris - is balance of power shifting?
Monday June 9, 2008 1:50 
1:50
eg, Murdoch buying MySpace.
Monday June 9, 2008 1:50 
1:51
Edinburgh festival analagous to internet - anyone can put on a show but many are rubbish.
Monday June 9, 2008 1:51 
1:52
Still a role for editors / pundits, etc. Some will come from trad, some from individuals.
Monday June 9, 2008 1:52 
1:52
Individuals as brands?
Monday June 9, 2008 1:52 
1:52
[Comment From Paul GrovesPaul Groves: ] 
Still get the feeling that for mainstream (old) media, all this is regarded too often as a necessary evil rather than an opportunity. There's too much "we have to do this" rather than "we want to do this". Kids won't eat veg if you force them. Journalists won't blog - for example - if you force them. Show them why it is good for them in a way that either makes them think it was their idea, or that it means they will show the world how it should be done.
Monday June 9, 2008 1:52 Paul Groves
1:54
Record companies slowly coming around. All about losing control of content.
Monday June 9, 2008 1:54 
1:54
[Comment From Andy MabbettAndy Mabbett: ] 
Are the panel seeing these comments? They don't seem to be addressing them.
Monday June 9, 2008 1:54 Andy Mabbett
1:54
[Comment From Kevin RapleyKevin Rapley: ] 
But have they really suffered? I would say that music is being distributed so much more readily we are able to find out further bands and artists we wish to listen to and then go and watch them in concert.
Monday June 9, 2008 1:54 Kevin Rapley
1:55
Danger of setting precedent of everything being free.
Monday June 9, 2008 1:55 
1:55
[Comment From Kevin RapleyKevin Rapley: ] 
The most successful music artists will embrace the Internet and social media in order to harness more sales at gigs
Monday June 9, 2008 1:55 Kevin Rapley
1:55
[Comment From Live BrumLive Brum: ] 
Bham Post is exciting because it is trad media genuinely trying to embrace new media. And beginning to do it well - which seems like a first.
Monday June 9, 2008 1:55 Live Brum
1:56
Asking Doug. We have internet where everything is free. How do you see this developing?
Monday June 9, 2008 1:56 
1:56
Can't be fair. Uncomfortable with people downloading it for free. Just doesn't seem right.
Monday June 9, 2008 1:56 
1:56
Merchandising?
Monday June 9, 2008 1:56 
1:56
Anthony - don't have to worry about free.
Monday June 9, 2008 1:56 
1:57
Anthongy used to work for Kazaa. :D
Monday June 9, 2008 1:57 
1:57
[Comment From TomTom: ] 
Difference with the press is they largely create the content as well as distribute it - how does this make a difference for them?
Monday June 9, 2008 1:57 Tom
1:58
BitTorrent mentioend by Anthony as speeding up international distribution of programs.
Monday June 9, 2008 1:58 
1:58
Jo - Internet not first free content model. Free newspapers been around for years.
Monday June 9, 2008 1:58 
1:59
Stuck in bubble of only thinking about advertising.
Monday June 9, 2008 1:59 
1:59
Answer is multifarious.
Monday June 9, 2008 1:59 
2:00
[Comment From MarkMark: ] 
go Jo. The ancillary market *is* the market now.
Monday June 9, 2008 2:00 Mark
2:01
Chris - there are other models out there. The fan club was ignored by music industry for ages.
Monday June 9, 2008 2:01 
2:01
Questions from the audience. Hopefully some from internet too!
Monday June 9, 2008 2:01 
2:02
[Comment From Live BrumLive Brum: ] 
No, people really don't mind paying for stuff. But they hate hassle and complexity. For years, 'free' was the easiest way to access content. As iTunes is proving, people _will_ pay if it's the quickest/easiest way of getting it.
Monday June 9, 2008 2:02 Live Brum
2:02
[Comment From Andy MabbettAndy Mabbett: ] 
Most music sales are to casual listeners, not "fans". I ran a Pink Floyd fanzine for ten years - out sales did not match those of the band!
Monday June 9, 2008 2:02 Andy Mabbett
2:03
Dave Harte saying history of media has radical moments. No choice / power thing going on.
Monday June 9, 2008 2:03 
2:04
Assumtion of "creatives" - came from scenes and packets of activity. Physical places closing down.
Monday June 9, 2008 2:04 
2:05
At least when something is streamed you can smoke while you watch it - can't at a gig. Good point. I'm gasping for a fag.
Monday June 9, 2008 2:05 
2:06
Questions from the online audience in the comments here please!
Monday June 9, 2008 2:06 
2:06
Chris - there was nothing special about the Arctic Monkeys. Scenes will still happen. Communication will also happen through intenret as well as in physical places.
Monday June 9, 2008 2:06 
2:07
Internet doesn;t solve problem of lack of spaces but does help.
Monday June 9, 2008 2:07 
2:08
Doug - rules have changed and old players don't know how to play.
Monday June 9, 2008 2:08 
2:08
1000 flowers blooming, some will work, some will fail.
Monday June 9, 2008 2:08 
2:08
[Comment From StefStef: ] 
"Digital: Power or Powerless" was the title of this talk. Can each panelist give one example of 'digital' that has made us powerless?
Monday June 9, 2008 2:08 Stef
2:09
How skepticism in Jo's news room?
Monday June 9, 2008 2:09 
2:10
Not always oldest people who are the most adverse. Often youngest people who are dismissive.
Monday June 9, 2008 2:10 
2:10
Old journos sometimes feel this takes them back to an old era.
Monday June 9, 2008 2:10 
2:10
[Comment From BilalBilal: ] 
Moving media to the internet will undoubtedly allow younger people to access the media - people who wouldn't normally buy a newspaper etc. How important do you think it is that younger people are involved and content is provided for them?
Monday June 9, 2008 2:10 Bilal
2:13
Answering Stef's question.

Monday June 9, 2008 2:13 
2:14
Doug - depends who you are. Music industry has lost power
Jo - Shift of power
Monday June 9, 2008 2:14 
2:14
Chris - Content owners learning to give up power over their content.
Monday June 9, 2008 2:14 
2:15
Chris - Likes seening Dr Who whenever he likes but also likes the wait for a two-parter.
Monday June 9, 2008 2:15 
2:15
Rory - People on other side of digital divide.
Monday June 9, 2008 2:15 
2:15
[Comment From Andy MabbettAndy Mabbett: ] 
Question: Why is accesibility (for the deaf, the blind and peopel with mobility porblems, etc) so often disregarded?
Monday June 9, 2008 2:15 Andy Mabbett
2:16
[Comment From Andy MabbettAndy Mabbett: ] 
IDc ards and "the database state" (RIPE, Phorm etc) decrease our power.
Monday June 9, 2008 2:16 Andy Mabbett
2:16
How are people disempowered by new media, those who don't have it.
Monday June 9, 2008 2:16 
2:17
Anthony -is it that people can't have it or people don't want it?
Monday June 9, 2008 2:17 
2:17
Can't have it - lower barrier to entry in future. Analogous to spread of electricity.
Monday June 9, 2008 2:17 
2:18
[Comment From Charlotte CareyCharlotte Carey: ] 
Is the digital divide a myth? don't most people walk about with mobile phones in their pockets?
Monday June 9, 2008 2:18 Charlotte Carey
2:18
[Comment From Kevin RapleyKevin Rapley: ] 
Companies that have foundations in traditional media, they try to place social media on top of this existing model. This usually fails as they do not put their core into the new social media model. Old media must completely restructure in order to fully achieve their potential online in order to become empowered. Do you agree with this statement?
Monday June 9, 2008 2:18 Kevin Rapley
2:18
[Comment From Kevin RapleyKevin Rapley: ] 
Companies that have foundations in traditional media, they try to place social media on top of this existing model. This usually fails as they do not put their core into the new social media model. Old media must completely restructure in order to fully achieve their potential online in order to become empowered. Do you agree with this statement?
Monday June 9, 2008 2:18 Kevin Rapley
2:18
Micropayments.

Monday June 9, 2008 2:18 
2:19
Anthony - haven't caught on. 1) low sums (1p) not wanted by content prodivers. 2) Not reached critical mass.
Monday June 9, 2008 2:19 
2:21
[Comment From Mark SteadmanMark Steadman: ] 
Microsoft and Apple (et al) reduce our power by locking us into their own DRM systems, thus giving them more power
Monday June 9, 2008 2:21 Mark Steadman
2:22
In BBCs interest to keep content on their own site rather than use iTunes.
Monday June 9, 2008 2:22 
2:22
Q: Digital divide is a joke. Everyone has access to tech.
Monday June 9, 2008 2:22 
2:23
Real digital divide is political. Those who can see difference between informaton and disinformation.
Monday June 9, 2008 2:23 
2:23
Political choices that we make.
Monday June 9, 2008 2:23 
2:23
[Comment From Craig McGintyCraig McGinty: ] 
On the digital divide, there is still a lack of advice on publishers' websites in making people aware of the different ways that information is being produced today. Do people approach a blog post on a newspaper in a different manner to a news story?
Monday June 9, 2008 2:23 Craig McGinty
2:24
Q from http://www.digitalbirmingham.co.uk/ : Any merit in local authorities getting involved?
Monday June 9, 2008 2:24 
2:25
Should BCC pay for broadband?

Monday June 9, 2008 2:25 
2:25
Jo - when there are books printed we teach people to read and give them free books, so yes.
Monday June 9, 2008 2:25 
2:26
[Comment From UnicaUnica: ] 
Digital Divide is less about access than knowing what is out there and how to use it .
Monday June 9, 2008 2:26 Unica
2:26
[Comment From Keri DaviesKeri Davies: ] 
No one would argue that the council shouldn't supply roads and drains. Why not access to the digital world, too?
Monday June 9, 2008 2:26 Keri Davies
2:26
[Comment From Kevin RapleyKevin Rapley: ] 
Companies that have foundations in traditional media, they try to place social media on top of this existing model. This usually fails as they do not put their core into the new social media model. Old media must completely restructure in order to fully achieve their potential online in order to become empowered. Do you agree with this statement?
Monday June 9, 2008 2:26 Kevin Rapley
2:27
Q: Anything making panel worried about future of democracy on internet given relationship between big companies controling infrastructure of internet?
Monday June 9, 2008 2:27 
2:27
Chris - Corps do what they do and will buy stuff that gets big.
Monday June 9, 2008 2:27 
2:28
Optimistic as big companies tend to get it wrong and screw up.
Monday June 9, 2008 2:28 
2:28
Also, big media players are competitng with each other. In short term this stops one corporate becoming dominant.
Monday June 9, 2008 2:28 
2:29
Jo on horrors ahead - Fact checking and criticism becoming increasingly more important.
Monday June 9, 2008 2:29 
2:30
Doug (from BT) - Renegotiation of trust.
Monday June 9, 2008 2:30 
2:30
Identity theft an issue - education needed to help people make good judgements.
Monday June 9, 2008 2:30 
2:30
[Comment From Andy MabbettAndy Mabbett: ] 
Questions on liveblog still being ignored.
Monday June 9, 2008 2:30 Andy Mabbett
2:30
[Comment From Live BrumLive Brum: ] 
Jo/Mark. Nice idea about city involvement but no, they would screw up the implementation. Perhaps the Bham Post could step up - I'd pay...
Monday June 9, 2008 2:30 Live Brum
2:31
[Comment From Live BrumLive Brum: ] 
Pete, why not do a shout out a the end so those participating online can say hello/thanks?
Monday June 9, 2008 2:31 Live Brum
2:32
Anthony - AOL tried walled garden but didn't work long term. ISPs are wanting to be content providers - probably biggest threat.
Monday June 9, 2008 2:32 
2:32
Tech giveth and taketh away.
Monday June 9, 2008 2:32 
2:32
[Comment From Kevin RapleyKevin Rapley: ] 
Companies that have foundations in traditional media, they try to place social media on top of this existing model. This usually fails as they do not put their core into the new social media model. Old media must completely restructure in order to fully achieve their potential online in order to become empowered. Do you agree with this statement?
Monday June 9, 2008 2:32 Kevin Rapley
2:33
Marc of the Post - is BBC a good or bad thing?
Monday June 9, 2008 2:33 
2:34
Chris - there are checks and balances but need to be careful.
Monday June 9, 2008 2:34 
2:35
Jo - Yes and no. On plus side not always about cost that makes things successful. Some provide better content than BBC.
Monday June 9, 2008 2:35 
2:35
[Comment From Keri DaviesKeri Davies: ] 
No, that "overspend" was a gross misreporting. The real overspend was about 5 Percent.
Monday June 9, 2008 2:35 Keri Davies
2:35
Doug - BBC hasn't changed enough compared to changes in distrbution.
Monday June 9, 2008 2:35 
2:36
Anrthoy - hasn't seen anyone actively trying to crush the competition at BBC.
Monday June 9, 2008 2:36 
2:37
BBC is using research to push things along - others can take than and run with it.
Monday June 9, 2008 2:37 
2:37
Wrappign up!

Monday June 9, 2008 2:37 
2:38
[Comment From MarkMark: ] 
%wise thats true. In real money terms, the BBC overspend would funf a years inovation at a small regonal
Monday June 9, 2008 2:38 Mark
2:38
[Comment From TomTom: ] 
If they are trying to help us along will they give out their content for free use for bloggers/media? We pay for it after all...
Monday June 9, 2008 2:38 Tom
2:38
Too early to tell.

Monday June 9, 2008 2:38 
2:38
Comments can continue at http://www.birminghampost.net/news/liveblog/
Monday June 9, 2008 2:38 
2:38
[Comment From Andy MabbettAndy Mabbett: ] 
Interesing discussion, but felt like on-line component was stand-alone, and one-way. Video was redundant - audio would have sufficed. Thanks to all who contributed.
Monday June 9, 2008 2:38 Andy Mabbett
2:38
Thanks given to comments from online peeps.
Monday June 9, 2008 2:38 
2:39
And we're done!
Monday June 9, 2008 2:39 
5:48



 
 
 
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