Euroblog 2008 - Day 2 - Live Blog Live Blogging

Euroblog 2008 - Day 2

(03/14/2008)

10:48

Welcome to day 2 of Euroblog 2008.

The internet connection seems to work better today and we're starting off with a great panel discussion.

I have invited 2 other bloggers present at the conference to add their insights, they are Pieter De Wit (Blackline) and Bruno Amaral from Portugal.

Please feel free to send in your comments/questions. We hope to have a real interactive discussion today.

Friday March 14, 2008 10:48

10:50

Has social media changed your work as a PR professional ?
Yes, a lot.

( 0% )

Yes, but not that much.

( 100% )

No, not really.

( 0% )

Friday March 14, 2008 10:50

10:50

Has social media changed your work as a PR professional ?
Yes, a lot.

( 63% )

Yes, but not that much.

( 25% )

No, not really.

( 13% )

Friday March 14, 2008 10:50

11:00

Philip Young gives the keynote and starts off by stating ‘social media has become a very serious game…’

Friday March 14, 2008 11:00

11:04

He continues with the notion that we now have moved back to 'two way communications'. But it is not only communications towards a target audience and the communicator. Communication across matters as well – between the audience and the communicator, bt on unintended subjects.

Friday March 14, 2008 11:04

11:04

"What you say to each other is reputation. Social media allow us to share individual thoughts and ideas all over the world. This pushes our reputation, because it is searchable."

Friday March 14, 2008 11:04

11:05

Two questions arise : how can PR cope with the internet? How can PR theory cope with the internet…?

Friday March 14, 2008 11:05

11:06

"PR is relationship management. Internet proves to be a great opportunity for PR to mature."

Friday March 14, 2008 11:06

11:09

What did you do on March 13th…? Do you remember?

What was online PR like back then? E-mail, static internet page,… It was already 9/11, so we knew coverage could come from non-journalists…But many books and PR blogs had yet to come.

Friday March 14, 2008 11:09

11:11

Philip closes the keynote by refering to PR blog week 2004 that stated "PR is dead, let's get rid of it'.

Next on the panel are Neville Hobson, Steve Robel, and David Weinberger.

Friday March 14, 2008 11:11

11:12

Neville, Steve and David all show their love for social media, David even stated: "if I could, I would marry the internet"

Friday March 14, 2008 11:12

11:13

Steve (www.micropersuasion.com) adds some interesting comments from his experience:
- Social media exposes you to more minds then you can imagine (wisdom of crowds – power of many)
- Advertising are no longer the controlling agencies, PR is driving the content and the campaigns…
- Traditional training for media relations is still important, but new skills are needed.

Friday March 14, 2008 11:13

11:15

David Weinberger adds that PR professionals in agencies will have to retrain their clients on the notions of public relations. This will presumably go with a lot of arguing, but even arguing is needed...

Friday March 14, 2008 11:15

11:17

Philippe steps back into the discussion by talking on Euroblog: "it came about normally, but turns out to become a benchmark, and shows us how the world is evolved.

One of the results in 2005 was: a two-speed Europe…: there are expert users, and there are the rest. Expert users saw that they could monitor, listen, and engage in conversations. Another finding: ‘gretest opportunity presented by weblogs:
*Most important: … being seen to adopt leading-edge technology!!!
*Least important was… receiving feedback by audience…

Research in 2007 showed more PR professionals have become expert users. We did ask different questions, and will have to ask different questions, because the times are changing...

Now, what will it be like in 2013…?

Friday March 14, 2008 11:17

11:21

[Be Right Back Countdown]

5 minutes

Friday March 14, 2008 11:21

11:25

Steve Rubel - what will it be like in 2013 ?

5 trends for 2013 - Open Files

The picture in picture web; portability of content and images.
Websites need to support a service or will not b successful. Web services are the trend - all content, web based is becoming portable.

The attention crash: Information overload. Humans can't scale. We need to chunk it down and follow the rules described in "Made to Stick".

Digital Curators: people will be forced to follow their interest more deeply - creating niche experts.

Super Crunchers: Marketing need to understand the numbers. Data mining & visualization reduce risk in PR, make marketing more effective and measurable. Google is becoming the marketing operating system.

Friday March 14, 2008 11:25

11:27

Neville Hobson:

This event is already a case to prove that things have changed. Several people at the conference have been Twittering the conference. Neville argues that "blogging a conference" is rather slow...

We're going to be seeing tools and services like Twitter more and more but what will the impact be ? Time and attention span ?

The mindset shift is one of the most important things to consider.

Friday March 14, 2008 11:27

11:27

Dave Weinberger:

The PR professional is tainted... We're getting paid to...

Why not go for open, flat out advocacy, no hidden agendas. Individuals can be more authentic than companies.

Friday March 14, 2008 11:27

11:28

Philip Young:

As academics we need to try to capture where we are and have a good look at the speed of things happening in PR world. Need to look at the notion of aggregation.

Tools most discussed in this session - Wikipedia and Twitter...

Friday March 14, 2008 11:28

11:34

[Be Right Back Countdown]

10 minutes

Friday March 14, 2008 11:34

11:34

[Be Right Back Countdown]

10 minutes

Friday March 14, 2008 11:34

11:34

[Be Right Back Countdown]

10 minutes

Friday March 14, 2008 11:34

11:34

[Be Right Back Countdown]

10 minutes

Friday March 14, 2008 11:34

11:34

[Be Right Back Countdown]

10 minutes

Friday March 14, 2008 11:34

11:34

[Be Right Back Countdown]

10 minutes

Friday March 14, 2008 11:34

11:34

[Be Right Back Countdown]

10 minutes

Friday March 14, 2008 11:34

11:44

Session: How can academic research lead & support the ways in which practitioners embrace social media ?

Friday March 14, 2008 11:44

11:47

Web 2.0 in Swiss Organisations - Guido Keel, Institute of Applied Media Studies.

Looking at who is using social media, how are they using it and a comparison to Euroblog 2007 results.

Friday March 14, 2008 11:47

11:53

Swiss organisations have a rather low level of understanding and usage of social media when compared to overall Euroblog 2007 study details.

Friday March 14, 2008 11:53

11:55

Does the use of Social Media change behavior, collaboration, mission statements etc...?

Friday March 14, 2008 11:55

11:58

No, it is a recursive process... Although technology can change structural environments (Google - Newspapers) it still is a process that requires several other structural aspects.

Friday March 14, 2008 11:58

11:59

Annette Nielsen - University of Aarhus - Denmark about blog dialogues.

Friday March 14, 2008 11:59

12:04

Researching to what extend blogs can be used as a platform for the mediation of knowledge in organisations, what is the added value and how can real dialogues be initiated.

Friday March 14, 2008 12:04

12:07

Mentions Scoble & Israel who claim that very organisation should blog...

Friday March 14, 2008 12:07

12:10

First connection: knowledge asymmetries are dynamic - a blog is a dynamic system.

Second connection: human communications is a transaction, blogging is a social transaction.

Third connection: knowledge is highly personnal - a blog is also a personnal publishing platform.

Friday March 14, 2008 12:10

12:12

Barriers for organisational blogging:

Traditiional way of thinking on learning & knowledge.
Top down strategy and hierarchy.
Paradox of always online & being transparent
Make no mistakes culture.

Friday March 14, 2008 12:12

12:13

[Comment From Pieter De WitPieter De Wit: ]

Maybe not the organisation, but every company should have an employee blogging

Friday March 14, 2008 12:13 Pieter De Wit

12:19

Karine Johannes - Catholic University of Louvain.

About social networks as an opportunity for an organization-public relationships.

Has Web2.0 changed the notion of publics ?

Friday March 14, 2008 12:19

12:23

Some research studies about social networks like Facebook, MySpace etc...

Slide from Le Monde (social network rankings in Europe).

Friday March 14, 2008 12:23

12:25

Facebook case study.

67 million users - 2 main reasons for popularity: daily usage and the applications.
Everyone can create applications.

Friday March 14, 2008 12:25

12:25

Users can create pages, application, their own communications channel.

Friday March 14, 2008 12:25

12:27

Shows Apple user pages, recruitment networks like the one from Ernst & Young.

Friday March 14, 2008 12:27

12:28

Do you think social networks like Facebook have a role to play in the enterprise ?
Yes

( 86% )

No

( 14% )

Friday March 14, 2008 12:28

12:30

"Social Network sites are places for personal and community relationships, less for professional relationships..."

Friday March 14, 2008 12:30

12:31

Question: what is the real object of the public's commitment in social networks ?

Friday March 14, 2008 12:31

12:35

[Comment From Catherine ArrowCatherine Arrow: ]

Despite its 67 million users and internal cross networks, Farcebook - sorry Facebook - sneaks in applications that are 'communicating to/marketing to' based rather than dialogue. The big shift will come as people begin to create their own networks using platforms like Ning - and the shift has begun. There is also a huge issue with Facebook regarding their use of data.

Friday March 14, 2008 12:35 Catherine Arrow

12:35

[Comment From Catherine ArrowCatherine Arrow: ]

Social networks will be embedded inside wiki spaces so people can share and organise knowledge, communicate and socialise around their own niche space. So social networks have a place most definitely - but not in the same guise as Facebook which is based on old-world business models.

Friday March 14, 2008 12:35 Catherine Arrow

12:36

Thanks for your comments - I will try to relate them to the audience when the question round starts.

Friday March 14, 2008 12:36

12:39

On stage now: Roberto Zangrandi - Head of CR at ENEL, Italy.

He will cover the "Enel sustainability meter", a polling tool which allows individuals to position themselves with Enel's sustainability.

Friday March 14, 2008 12:39

12:47

[Comment From Catherine ArrowCatherine Arrow: ]

Thanks to you too for the liveblog. I should head for bed - it's nearly midnight here in NZ, but I have become addicted to watching out and listening for the next entry to see what's happening.

Friday March 14, 2008 12:47 Catherine Arrow

12:49

For those following us on the other side of the world replay of these conference notes will be available on both the Euroblog 2008 blog and on Blacklineblog.com.

Friday March 14, 2008 12:49

12:51

[Comment From tinatina: ]

great: politics in 2d

Friday March 14, 2008 12:51 tina

12:52

ENEL managed to get input from about 2000 people online about their "sustainability" image.

They had about 137000 visitors on their website and checked out the polling tool.

According to Roberto - not enough but gives a good insight. 26% were customers...

Friday March 14, 2008 12:52

12:55

On the stage now: Liz Bridgen, De Montfort University.

How PROs acquire social media skills.

Friday March 14, 2008 12:55

12:56

Great slides, all image, no text... Love it, except, I need to blog this...

Friday March 14, 2008 12:56

1:00

Case study of a small UK PR agency an how they learned social media.

Friday March 14, 2008 1:00

1:01

They were not following the "PR & social media" conversation due to time constraints and "real PR" work.

Friday March 14, 2008 1:01

1:01

[Comment From Catherine ArrowCatherine Arrow: ]

Set yourself up in Second Life and broadcast the conference in there in the same way our Digital Summit did last year - then we can see the slides too! Or are you there already? Is there a slurl?

Friday March 14, 2008 1:01 Catherine Arrow

1:02

[Comment From GuestGuest: ]

Great that your offering some reporting - don't want to discourage! But of limited value for someone who wants to contribute to debate from afar. Why not take up the Ragan Communications offer of sponsorship for an unconference for next year, and use it to provide full live coverage (ie. video link).

Friday March 14, 2008 1:02 Guest

1:02

[Comment From Catherine ArrowCatherine Arrow: ]

Set yourself up in Second Life and broadcast the conference in there in the same way our Digital Summit did last year - then we can see the slides too! Or are you there already? Is there a slurl?

Friday March 14, 2008 1:02 Catherine Arrow

1:07

The agency employees took a common sense approach to the use of social media. Debates about transparency but at no point id they consider posting anonimously or with another identity.

Friday March 14, 2008 1:07

1:09

Learning on the job mainly happened on an individual level although they engaged in social networks like MySpace.

Friday March 14, 2008 1:09

1:09

Speed & continuity of web based communications was a surprise.

Friday March 14, 2008 1:09

1:12

PROs recognise the "laws" of PR and apply them to social media settings.

There's a kind of paradox - PR professional are eager to learn but are not aware of the pitfalls...

Friday March 14, 2008 1:12

1:16

On stage: Alexander Richter and Alexander Warta.

Enterprise Wikis at Robert Bosch GmbH

Friday March 14, 2008 1:16

1:18

The wiki overlaps with the intranet, the email system, collaboration rooms and F2F presentations.

Friday March 14, 2008 1:18

1:20

Talks about how the "area of effective communications" sits right in the middle between overcomplicated (rich) froms of comms. and the complexity of the communications task.

Friday March 14, 2008 1:20

1:23	Are you using a wiki at work ? Yes, al the time. ( 14% ) Sometimes ( 71% ) No, not at all. ( 14% ) Friday March 14, 2008 1:23

1:25

States that Wikis are closer to "information management" where blogs are more on the "communications" side.

Friday March 14, 2008 1:25

1:26

Better to implement complex functions of the wiki step by step. Makes a case for training, small projects, examples....

Friday March 14, 2008 1:26

1:27

Question & answer session.

Friday March 14, 2008 1:27

1:30

[Comment From Catherine ArrowCatherine Arrow: ]

Wikis are more than information management - they are knowledge management. A fantastically rich resource which promotes ownership among collaborators and a real sense of community. Step by step is fine - or take the bull by the horns as NZ police did when it came to The Police Act Review wiki which invited open contributions to new legislation - I believe it was the first in the world to actively take up the challenge of Larry Sanger who said he envisigned a society (paraphrasing here) where citizens contributed to democracy by collaboration.

Friday March 14, 2008 1:30 Catherine Arrow

1:38

Response to comment from Catherine Arrow:

True, real value from social networks will come from people creating their own but - Facebook has only a very small amount of "sponsored pages" compared to groups created by Facebook users.

Friday March 14, 2008 1:38

1:39

Steve Rubel states that you achieve economies of scale by using social media to create relationships.

Friday March 14, 2008 1:39

1:41

Lunch Break - we'll be back at 2 PM Brussels time.

Friday March 14, 2008 1:41

1:42

[Comment From Catherine ArrowCatherine Arrow: ]

It isn't about the sponsored pages, they are just chicken feed - it is about the applications tracking and mining data. That's were the user rebellion will come ultimately. May take time because there are so many - but it will happen and user fall off will happen as rapidly as user take-up.

Friday March 14, 2008 1:42 Catherine Arrow

1:43

[Comment From Catherine ArrowCatherine Arrow: ]

(private message - I'll go and make toast and strong coffee to keep me up then...)

Friday March 14, 2008 1:43 Catherine Arrow

3:11

And we're off again....

Friday March 14, 2008 3:11

3:12

On the stage: Ansgar Zerfass, Leipzig University, Germany.

Social Web applications in Europe.

Friday March 14, 2008 3:12

3:13

Very low figures for the application of social media in business environments.

Friday March 14, 2008 3:13

3:14

Berlecon 2007 study:

RSS - 6% of companies use it.
Social Networks - 4%
Wikis - 5%
Blogs & Podcasting - 5%

Friday March 14, 2008 3:14

3:15

62% of German companies say that "benefits are not clear".
Euroblog study from 2007 - "We can not demonstrate ROI"

Friday March 14, 2008 3:15

3:19

Berlecon Study on Enterprise 2.0 in Germany.

Friday March 14, 2008 3:19

3:20

Corporate comms. is an enabling function - contributes to the bottom line indirectly by enhancing value creation.

Social Web enhances value creation as well through opinions, feedback loop etc...

Friday March 14, 2008 3:20

3:21

BCG Study - 72% of CEOs put Innovation on top of agenda - not so with corporate communicators.

Friday March 14, 2008 3:21

3:23

Closed Innovation Model - social media and communications come at the end of the cycle.

Open Innovation Model - social media & communications are integrated in all steps.

Friday March 14, 2008 3:23

3:24

Social Media bridges the inside and outside of the organisation, collaboration becomes easy = innovation increase.

Friday March 14, 2008 3:24

3:25	Do you think social media enable innovation ? Yes, definitely. ( 88% ) Don't know. ( 13% ) No, has nothing to do with it. ( 0% ) Friday March 14, 2008 3:25

3:28

We need to:

Restructure the process of communications management. (Input).
Communicate with social media. (Output/Outcome).
Link social web communications to corporate strategy. (Outflow).

Friday March 14, 2008 3:28

3:32

Example: Dells IdeaStorm

Friday March 14, 2008 3:32

3:35

Pictures from the conference.

Please add if you have some....

Friday March 14, 2008 3:35

3:39

On stage: David Jennings - author of Net, Blogs & Rock'n'Roll

Friday March 14, 2008 3:39

3:40

[Comment From Catherine ArrowCatherine Arrow: ]

It's no good just looking to restructure communications management - you must look at restructuring organisations and their relationships first. Start inside. First listen, then facilitate necessary change/evolution, then create understanding/shared meaning inside and out, co-create next steps, then employ the right tools for the job - which could mean an old-school phone call or a collaborative wiki for 5000 stretched across the globe. Think-listen-advocate-build-share-think some more...this makes quite a useful model...

Friday March 14, 2008 3:40 Catherine Arrow

3:43

Shows image of an iPod player except this one only plays "music I will like".

Friday March 14, 2008 3:43

3:44

Talks about searching, browsing, monitoring, fetching... foraging information.

Friday March 14, 2008 3:44

3:48

Book mentioned: Anarchy in Action

Friday March 14, 2008 3:48

4:00

Example of information being found on different online networks; music list from Last FM embedded into Facebook profile etc...

Friday March 14, 2008 4:00

4:01

"Get mad at the man"...

Friday March 14, 2008 4:01

4:02

On stage now: Martin Oetting, European School of Management

Word of Mouth

Friday March 14, 2008 4:02

4:03

Starts by apologising about being an ex-advertising guy... Good start.

Friday March 14, 2008 4:03

4:05

Is it about the product ?

Depends... A Beetle car tells a story, a fax machine didn't at the time when they came out.

Friday March 14, 2008 4:05

4:06

Word of Mouth - Oh yes, viral marketing.... It is not because a viral clip has been watched a million times that the product will sell more...

Friday March 14, 2008 4:06

4:08

Advertising, marketing around a brand is about involvement...

Friday March 14, 2008 4:08

4:09

It is possible to create situational involvement... like in Human Resources.

Friday March 14, 2008 4:09

4:10

[Comment From Pieter De WitPieter De Wit: ]

Beetle car - hmm - I like that one ... as I drive one myself :-)

Friday March 14, 2008 4:10 Pieter De Wit

4:11

Employee empowerment: meaning, competence, elf determination, impact.

This leads to innovation, managerial effectiveness.

Could this be applied to marketing ?

Friday March 14, 2008 4:11

4:18

Client Case: Payback

Discussed how the corporate blog of the company should be with a first audience. Involved and empowered audience, transparent marketing.

Feedback showed that the group of people involved in the discussion about the blog where more active in positive word of mouth.

Friday March 14, 2008 4:18

4:18

Companies create ripple effects by using social media. Mass collaboration is the way for PR.

Friday March 14, 2008 4:18

4:19

Questions & Answers.

Friday March 14, 2008 4:19

4:37

[Comment From Pieter De WitPieter De Wit: ]

"mass collaboration " he said. I assume this can be linked back to what was said yesterday to what causes anxiety with PROs to effectively start with social media...

Friday March 14, 2008 4:37 Pieter De Wit

4:43

Serge Cornelus doesn't agree that avertising agencies do not like an "involved" public of consumers. Gives Boondoggle as an agency who get's this.

Friday March 14, 2008 4:43

4:43

Coffee break !

Friday March 14, 2008 4:43

4:43

[Be Right Back Countdown]

10 minutes

Friday March 14, 2008 4:43

5:11

And we are off for a huge panel discussion

Friday March 14, 2008 5:11

5:13

We have
Neville Hobson
Ansgar Zerfass
Kris Hoet
Chris Rushton
Philippe Borremans*
Thomas Pleil
Amanda Mooney
Marshall Manson

a nice mix of academia and professionals...

Friday March 14, 2008 5:13

5:16

* means we have another live blogger: I am Pieter De Wit and I will be your host for this show

Friday March 14, 2008 5:16

5:18

We are now enjoying a quick intro on all speakers, but nothing that Google can't tell you :-)

The opening question then: There has been some discussion, but is openess and transparancy the way forward?

Friday March 14, 2008 5:18

5:22

Answer Nevile: it depends
Answer Kris: openess at Microsoft is encouraged, I totaly believe in possitive effects
Answer Amanda: we are asking consumers to invest money in our company, now it is time we invest in their feedback

Friday March 14, 2008 5:22

5:27

Answer Chris: openess brings ethical issues to government, healthcare, ... and politicians are very tense on how information is brought out
Answer Philippe: i think companies should be open - it just depends on the level of openness you want to reach.
Answer Thomas: I agree with Philippe, but I have an extra question: openness is two way - what can companies do with all the information, and how can they cope?

Friday March 14, 2008 5:27

5:29

Marshall rises a question on wikipedia, and the edits that are done by companies

Friday March 14, 2008 5:29

5:30

Philippe answers: if you implement wiki's, you have to trust your employees. Do you trust your employees? If not, then social media can't help you

Friday March 14, 2008 5:30

5:31

[Comment From Ronna PorterRonna Porter: ]

Where we need to go? To fully engage, PR needs to help cos to focus efforts on fewer priorities across all fronts - traditional PR and social media together. Not about control, about knowing what you want to achieve, what (less rather than more) things you need to do to achieve it, what it will look like when you have finished, and how to adjust within your community as required.

Friday March 14, 2008 5:31 Ronna Porter

5:31

Neville: I use Wikipedia as a trusted source, but for clients I double check with other sources. This is a universal feeling..

Friday March 14, 2008 5:31

5:32

Marshall brings it back to companies - should companies become trustworthy sources?

Friday March 14, 2008 5:32

5:35

Public: because they can learn form themselves and from enthousiasts

Friday March 14, 2008 5:35

5:39

Kris: microsoft uses MVPs - external professionals to support them. Also, there is a community page that collects internal blogs that they can use internally to referece.

On wikipedia: Wikipedia is not seen as a official source for education (this is seconded then the public)

Friday March 14, 2008 5:39

5:40

[Comment From Robert FrenchRobert French: ]

Oh, Neville. The very nature of Wikipedia belies its inherent flaws. I, and many other educators, will fail a student that uses it as a primary reference.

Friday March 14, 2008 5:40 Robert French

5:42

Public: CEO-blogs are not trusted, because they are branded. But Uni of Sunderlands students prefer uni website as the wikipedia entry.

Friday March 14, 2008 5:42

5:43

answer to Robert French : all teachers, students and practitioners seem to agree on this

Friday March 14, 2008 5:43

5:43

Twitter comes in: should we/can we trust our customers?

Friday March 14, 2008 5:43

5:46

Thomas: why not, customers want to be convinced. they can help you making it better

Friday March 14, 2008 5:46

5:46

[Comment From Ronna PorterRonna Porter: ]

Wikipedia: 'Reader beware!' But it has had and continues to have a role, and is driving a more open and collaborate means of sharing information, not to mention turning business models on their heads.

Friday March 14, 2008 5:46 Ronna Porter

5:47

Ansgar: you have to listen to them, but you also have to apply their feedback in our business model

Friday March 14, 2008 5:47

5:51

Public questions openess - Neville aswers: you build a relationship, and that comes with trust. Competitive advantage is key, but you're doing it differently, with a different business model

Friday March 14, 2008 5:51

5:51

[Comment From Robert FrenchRobert French: ]

Re: "should we/can we trust our customers?" What's the phrase/saying? "Trust, but verify." Conversation mining can be valuable. The bigger question is, "Are managers/administrators listening?" Best practice examples for how to get them to listen ... the ROI for listening is the elusive prize.

Friday March 14, 2008 5:51 Robert French

5:54

Public: where is the benefit for Microsoft?
Kris (Microsoft): information is shared within the company - I can draw info from it, bloggers are given heads up when press releases are published so they are informed,

Friday March 14, 2008 5:54

5:56

Public: social media helps us to focus. We put $$$ in focus groups, but now you get it overnight fro free...

Friday March 14, 2008 5:56

5:58

Philippe : dialogues are open
Public: yes, but it still is you who choses what to do with it, you make the choices - that's what differs you from your competitors (comes from a marketer)

Friday March 14, 2008 5:58

6:00

Chris (uni) : where does PR fit in? customer service? HR? do we have the power to take it far enough

Friday March 14, 2008 6:00

6:00

[Comment From Ronna PorterRonna Porter: ]

So are the $$$ being saved from not needing to do focus groups being intelligently re-invested elsewhere eg. creating better two-way links between cos and their community?

Friday March 14, 2008 6:00 Ronna Porter

6:01

Marshal: PR is perceived as relationships. Social media is build on relationships. Is that where our future lays?

Friday March 14, 2008 6:01

6:02

Teacher in public: PR is build out of two words: public + relations. We need to investigate both separatly

Friday March 14, 2008 6:02

6:05

Thomas : PR has to teach employees to converse...

The Daimler blog is a nice example : employees were trained

Friday March 14, 2008 6:05

6:06

Kris answers to Thomas: he thinks PROs should tap into existing bloggers, instead of training people for it. Also tap into existing conversations...

Friday March 14, 2008 6:06

6:06

[Comment From Robert FrenchRobert French: ]

Ideas from the panel? Best ways to engage students in conversation mining so they are ready to help and be a valuable asset to employers when hired? Best ways for them to convince employers of the value / ROI of all this conversation mining?

Friday March 14, 2008 6:06 Robert French

6:07

Answer to Robert: I'll try to squeeze it in ;-)

Friday March 14, 2008 6:07

6:12

Public: PR is to take the lead, especially now we have the tools
Neville answers: if PR doesn't, somebody else will. We are to be seen to be the ones that build bridges between divisions, the ones that get things done.

Friday March 14, 2008 6:12

6:15

Neville: the move to social media is going to happen, so now we can take the lead. Some of his clients try to ignore it because they are afraid.

There is a lot of work out there, especially for consultant

Friday March 14, 2008 6:15

6:17

Philippe: i agree, and we have to go to C-level to take their fear away. On the other hand, it is good to light a small fire with some employees that can become a social media fire within the company

Friday March 14, 2008 6:17

6:20

Education question: what do PR students have to learn to cope
amanda: We have created a disctinction between marketing/PR/HR..., now we have to move away from the distinction.

Friday March 14, 2008 6:20

6:21

panel: Students have to know it al (business, media, social media,...)

Friday March 14, 2008 6:21

6:22

Marshall (Edelman): students that understand 'business' have an advantage

Friday March 14, 2008 6:22

6:23

thomas: professionals do not have enough time to learn extra (as social media) - so students should have social media skills

Friday March 14, 2008 6:23

6:25

Student in public: minibloggers influence what is being said in mainstream media.

Friday March 14, 2008 6:25

6:26

Marshal: round-up question from the above question : where will we end up, as people like me will continue using twitter

Friday March 14, 2008 6:26

6:30

thomas: I will continue to trust people in my network
Philippe: you need to know the media you are publishing on, so we need to test them. But I have this feeling that in 5 years I will still be explaining social media

Chris: i don't know. We don't know if social media will be around in five years. And if newspapers will be around. and we don't know if PR will still be around...

Friday March 14, 2008 6:30

6:33

[Comment From Ronna PorterRonna Porter: ]

Where will we end up: subject for the next session, its all down to how well we understand human nature.

Friday March 14, 2008 6:33 Ronna Porter

6:34

Amanda: we have to have a more holistic approach to campaigns. It's gonna take more people to respond
Kris: example of South-African start-up guy that blogged he wanted to drive an Aston Martin, and AM provided him with a 24h pass. Proves AM has learned that everybody can be a customer
Ansgar: trust in new media channels might decline
Neville: it is going to be worse

Friday March 14, 2008 6:34

6:36

[Comment From Frank OvaittFrank Ovaitt: ]

This panel demonstrates such fundamental misunderstanding of the roles of corporate public relations. You reallly mean media relations when you say PR. Otherwise, it is hard to imagine the apparent consensus of the panel that marketing and PR will so assuredly be merged.

Friday March 14, 2008 6:36 Frank Ovaitt

6:37

Frank, thx for your comment, but I m sorry I can't squeeze it in anymore - i know for sure the panel don't see PR that limited (even if it's by only knowing one of them in person)

Friday March 14, 2008 6:37

6:38

We now enjoy David Phillips who 's asking some probing questions

Friday March 14, 2008 6:38

6:38

- will the internet be around in 10 years?

Friday March 14, 2008 6:38

6:40	Will the internet be around in 10 years from now? Yes, even more widespread ( 100% ) No, it will be taken down ( 0% ) 10 years, I don't dare to take a guess ( 0% ) Friday March 14, 2008 6:40

6:45

[Comment From Judy GombitaJudy Gombita: ]

I agree with Frank, except I'd say that not only is public relations (in social media) being confused with media relations, but also with the corporate *marketing* of products and services. Marcomm at best, not public relations.

Friday March 14, 2008 6:45 Judy Gombita

6:51

David: "The internet may survive - we need groups to survive - internet will feed our human curiosity (we love to know how to embed YouTube-video's in our Facebook account) - we have a competitive angle in us, our brains allow us to change groups - humans are social beings - we use tokens to communicate within groups - is PR about tokens or values - tokens mean different things to different people, but we have common grounds to continue - internet will survive, because it is a great spot to use tokens - PR is not about communications, but about conversations - netwerks drive values, and social media can pull values together"

Friday March 14, 2008 6:51

6:51

[Comment From Ronna PorterRonna Porter: ]

Where we need to go? To fully engage, PR needs to help cos to focus efforts on fewer priorities across all fronts - traditional PR (in the widest sense - corp and product) and social media together. Not about control, about knowing what you want to achieve, what (less rather than more) things you need to do to achieve it, what it will look like when you have finished, and how to adjust within your community as required.

Friday March 14, 2008 6:51 Ronna Porter

6:53

David: "we need groups, tokens, values to be human - this all links to 'relations' in Public Relations. A next time we'll talk about 'public' - thank you"

Friday March 14, 2008 6:53

6:55

Dear readers, thank you for tuning in, commenting, and we hope to see you tomorrow at 9 AM Brussels time.

We're off for a drink, we hope you can too :-)

Friday March 14, 2008 6:55

10:05

Good morning nd welcome to the 3rd day of Euroblog 2008.

Saturday March 15, 2008 10:05

10:11

We will discuss Ethics & Rules of Engagement in New Media today with Dan Luca (PR Director EurActiv), Philip Young and Sue Wolstenholme (President Euprera)

Saturday March 15, 2008 10:11

10:17

Rick Murray (President me2revolution) sets the scene and invites the panel. This will be a lively discussion.

Saturday March 15, 2008 10:17

10:18

Ethics, via Latin ethica from the Ancient Greek ἠθική [φιλοσοφία] "moral philosophy", from the adjective of ἤθος ēthos "custom, habit" (from Wikipedia).

Saturday March 15, 2008 10:18

10:19

Reference: The Code Of Athens.

Saturday March 15, 2008 10:19

10:21

Philip Young, can we (PROs) be the conscience of the organisation ? There are no "sets of ehtics" per medium but we do have to set standards for all our business activities.

Transparency and acountability are key.

Saturday March 15, 2008 10:21

10:29

The World is Flat - page 124 is quoted.

What is credible, what is legitimate ? Word of mouth versus "gossip".

The concept of freedom of speech.

Saturday March 15, 2008 10:29

10:31

Freedom, Responsibility and Justice.

Freedom : total freedom, limitations...?
Responsibility: who is responsible ?
Justice: who regulates ?

Saturday March 15, 2008 10:31

10:38

Anonymity and social media. A huge number of blogs ask for even more anonymity while it should be about openness.

It is understandable that people want to be anonymous in countries with totalitarian regimes. But in democracies it should be about open communications.

Saturday March 15, 2008 10:38

10:39

[Comment From Kris HoetKris Hoet: ]

Who regulates? Who is responsible? What are the limitations?... those all sound very much like people looking for who's in control, while it's about letting go of control

Saturday March 15, 2008 10:39 Kris Hoet

10:41

Anonimity = no responsibility.

Saturday March 15, 2008 10:41

10:43

"The blogosphere is a lot like a rag magazine, people sounding off all the time...."

Saturday March 15, 2008 10:43

10:46

Blogster "Bitch Ph.D." is quoted.

Saturday March 15, 2008 10:46

10:49

Tim O'Reilly is mentioned with his code of conduct for bloggers.... Sue doesn't understand that most bloggers are against such a code.

Saturday March 15, 2008 10:49

10:57

Ethics are so annoying. I avoid them on principle.
Darby Conley, Get Fuzzy Comic, 08-15-07

Saturday March 15, 2008 10:57

11:01

European Union discussed now - about Public Spheres; is there a European sphere or a collection of national spheres...

Saturday March 15, 2008 11:01

11:01

(Where is the Ethics link ?)

Saturday March 15, 2008 11:01

11:05

Financial Times, BBC online are cited as major information sources.

Saturday March 15, 2008 11:05

11:07

EU on ethics in the media: self regulation - media policy part of citizen policy.

Saturday March 15, 2008 11:07

11:08

OK, discussion on ethics will start now....

Saturday March 15, 2008 11:08

11:11

Anonymity: there is a case for not letting everyone know everything about you all the time. Socializing and work are different things. In the blogopshere these 2 environments tend to blurr.

Saturday March 15, 2008 11:11

11:13

Second Life is a world full of anonymity. Over time you can start to respect an anonymous blog. Other people will give you a signal that anonymity is working for you or not.

Saturday March 15, 2008 11:13

11:14

You can be factual and anonymous.

Saturday March 15, 2008 11:14

11:15

The blogosphere will autoregulate itself.

Saturday March 15, 2008 11:15

11:19

There is a concern about anonymity and lack of responsibility.

Saturday March 15, 2008 11:19

11:21

David Weinberger takes the discussion back to ethics in PR versus ethics in the blogosphere.

Saturday March 15, 2008 11:21

11:25

Difference is made between PROs communicating on a "person to person level" or on a "company to public" level.

Saturday March 15, 2008 11:25

11:25

[Comment From Catherine ArrowCatherine Arrow: ]

Kia ora Phillipe. The blogosphere as an "entity" that can self regulate doesn't exist. The collection of communities within the blogosphere self regulate to a certain extent but if you observe the human propensity for mischief, self-regulation is a big ask. And it is rather naive to think this will happen. People remain anonymous because it gives them a freedom and a degree of protection to say what they might otherwise not say and allows them to behave outside their normally accepted cultural/ethical codes.

Saturday March 15, 2008 11:25 Catherine Arrow

11:28

It might be naieve to think that a social media will be an ethical, democratic environment.

Saturday March 15, 2008 11:28

11:29

Coffee Break - back in 10 minutes.

Saturday March 15, 2008 11:29

11:49

On stage: Nicolas Baygert, UCL, Belgium - French Politics at the Digital Age.

Saturday March 15, 2008 11:49

11:52

Speaks about the use of Google Ads and redirects to offline comments and negative online coverage of political opponents.

Saturday March 15, 2008 11:52

11:54

UMP's Web 2.0 investment: 1.5 million Euro for email campaigns. Spammed 3 million citizens in total, 30000 new people joined the party.

Saturday March 15, 2008 11:54

11:57

Ségolène Royal (PS) created Désirs d'Avenir, a social media platform as a hub for the political campaign.

Saturday March 15, 2008 11:57

11:58

"E-proselytizing" : transforming social media users in permanent politicised clients.

Saturday March 15, 2008 11:58

12:02

[Comment From Catherine ArrowCatherine Arrow: ]

NZ Govt has had its own YouTube channel for a while and the opposition here has embraced all things Web 2.0 ahead of this year's election. An Electoral Finance bill was passed hurriedly at the end of 2007 which seriously impacts on what people can say and spend during this election year making it inevitable that migration online would take place - it also made my predictions of web campaiging here come true, so I should have put money on it really!

Saturday March 15, 2008 12:02 Catherine Arrow

12:03

But then again.... Sarkozy won the elections...

Saturday March 15, 2008 12:03

12:05

On stage: Tina Brunauer (SORA, Austria) on the Use of socil media in Austrian political campaigning.

Saturday March 15, 2008 12:05

12:09

Content control is an important topic in Austria.

Goals of a social media campaign (based on interview with political campaigners); activate users, create networks, encourage publications, raise awareness, easy media relations, possible to bypass media....

Saturday March 15, 2008 12:09

12:09

[Comment From Catherine ArrowCatherine Arrow: ]

Some real time political blogging - Obama blogs to contradict on Huffington...

Saturday March 15, 2008 12:09 Catherine Arrow

12:10

[Comment From Catherine ArrowCatherine Arrow: ]

Link - sorry - comment left before the link went in.http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/7297943.stm

Saturday March 15, 2008 12:10 Catherine Arrow

12:10

It is all about campaigning, not about the users, democracy etc....

Saturday March 15, 2008 12:10

12:11

It includes one way communications, restricted access etc....

Saturday March 15, 2008 12:11

12:22

[Comment From Catherine ArrowCatherine Arrow: ]

And, while I'm thinking BBC and as a back-comment on yesterday's wikipedia discussion, take a look at the use of BBC wikipedia referencing on this story. Wiki page needs citations, but still used as signpost on infomation for discredited ex-popstar. http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/wales/7297495.stm

Saturday March 15, 2008 12:22 Catherine Arrow

12:25

Giampaolo Azzoni, University of Pavia, Italy: wikis are better than blogs for ethical online communications/collaboration.

Saturday March 15, 2008 12:25

12:28

Can PR theory cope with the internet ? Derek Hodge, University of Stirling, UK.

Saturday March 15, 2008 12:28

12:28

[Comment From Catherine ArrowCatherine Arrow: ]

Yeah! Absolutely. Been saying this for years. Three cheers for Giampaolo Azzoni!

Saturday March 15, 2008 12:28 Catherine Arrow

12:30

PR theory is mainly based on US history and practice.

Saturday March 15, 2008 12:30

12:31

PROs need new ways of visualising the communications nexus.

Saturday March 15, 2008 12:31

12:32

"PROs can be seen as cultural intermediaries, mediators between producers and consumers, actively creating meanings..."

Saturday March 15, 2008 12:32

12:42

Feedback loop is also interpretating the images, information that comes back, not only taking it in.

Saturday March 15, 2008 12:42

12:42

Theories do not have to be right to be enormously useful (Toffler).

Saturday March 15, 2008 12:42

12:46

Public Relations versus propaganda.... Are we naive to think that the use of social media in political campaigning is more than just propaganda ?

Saturday March 15, 2008 12:46

12:48

[Comment From Catherine ArrowCatherine Arrow: ]

PR theory needs to give itself a big kick up the backside. It can only cope with the web environment if it speeds up the pace at which it produces research. Hanging around waiting for people to publish in a journal that comes out once a quarter just doesn't cut the mustard. Much PR theory may be US based, but that doesn't make it right! Many other cultures have different views (Ubuntu for one) and these views don't get the same exposure, but fortunately the web is changing that. Academics must appreciate that if they stick to academic models created in an ancient place and time they will always be on the back foot when it comes to their usefulness to the practitioner - who is out there'living' the theory and creating the rules. Much PR theory is based on communications models that in turn are based on communications mechanisms/tools (e.g. senders/receivers etc., - fab examples of early product PR for the telephone) rather than people and the way we think and work. We use this stuff - we are not the stuff itself. Quite happy to be shot down in flames on this, but at the very least, 'theory' needs to take a good long look a thew ays research is published and presented. The rest of us work and research to much tighter deadlines!

Saturday March 15, 2008 12:48 Catherine Arrow

12:52

[Comment From GuestGuest: ]

we are sharing your comments with the panel !!

Saturday March 15, 2008 12:52 Guest

12:55

[Comment From GuestGuest: ]

Thank you New Zealand !

Saturday March 15, 2008 12:55 Guest

12:57

It is not about communications it is about people - we are defined by our communications !

(Catherine, your point was taken and has a lot of supporters here.... many thanks from the room for your contributions !)

Saturday March 15, 2008 12:57

12:59

[Comment From Catherine ArrowCatherine Arrow: ]

You're welcome.

Saturday March 15, 2008 12:59 Catherine Arrow

1:00

Closing reactions from Toni Muzi Falconi, Ansgar Zerfass, Chris Rushton.

Saturday March 15, 2008 1:00

1:03

Main issues for PR:

Time - everything is faster and immediate, how to cope with this ?
Impact on listening, one of our most important skills.
Theory & implementation.
Ethics - we need to really describe what we're talking about.

Saturday March 15, 2008 1:03

1:06

[Comment From GuestGuest: ]

Don't agree that we are PR practionners and not bloggers we are both...sorry Toni !

Saturday March 15, 2008 1:06 Guest

1:08

Lots of questions are buzzing around:

Change of the bottom line, change of the role of PR and change of the theory of PR.

Comes back to my question: where are the case studies ?

Saturday March 15, 2008 1:08

1:13

Research, time, speed, implementation - in this area it is almost impossible to synch these..

Saturday March 15, 2008 1:13

1:14

We need to go from the tools concept to researching modes of communications.

Saturday March 15, 2008 1:14

1:21

Message from Catherine Arrow: we need to research people - those who make up our publics, before we research modes of communications because ultimately it is people we are dealing with, living with, working with and connecting with.

Saturday March 15, 2008 1:21

1:30

Theory versus techniques... lot's of techniques available but no real theories for "new communications".

Saturday March 15, 2008 1:30

1:31

Closing remarks by Philip Young - theory & practice do go together !

Saturday March 15, 2008 1:31

1:38

Edelman: let's keep it real. Social media are really good tools but we will not and can not replace these by real world PR.

Saturday March 15, 2008 1:38

1:38

PR is not dead, mainstream media are not dead....

Saturday March 15, 2008 1:38

1:39

The more things change the more they stay the same

(That's one of my favorite lines from a song by Huey Lewis & the News...)

Saturday March 15, 2008 1:39

1:39

A big thank you for everyone who commented, everyone present.... !

Please keep the conversation going !

"Live" blogging & podcasting provided by Blackline.

Saturday March 15, 2008 1:39

1:41

PS : podcast sessions will be uploaded over the next couple of days, idem for video due to the lack of a high speed connection.... Watch this space.

Saturday March 15, 2008 1:41

1:44

This Live Blog has now ended.

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