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8:58
Fred Barbash-Moderator -  What's "rich" these days? Who's "rich" versus "affluent" versus "better off?" The President is proposing some tax increases on households with incomes greater than $250,000 a year in order to fund new initiatives in health care. How this debate get framed will have a significant impact on its fate. No doubt the framing depends in part on whether Americans see taxes going up for "rich" people or, say, "upper middle class" people or, say, "small business people" or if the target group is defined simply as the 2 percent of households with gross incomes $250,000 or above?

Arena contributor Joshua Tucker, put the public opinion calculus rather well in his post:


"I suspect that in the current economic climate, taxing the rich will not only fly, but will likely be the most popular way to fund any major initiative that the President wants to advance. Although not all rich people are bankers, every story that emerges about excesses in the financial sector – especially those related to pay and bonuses – will make it that much easier to sell increases in taxes on the wealthy to the American public, especially when it is continually combined with Obama’s rhetoric focusing on tax cuts for 95% of working Americans. Thus Obama’s plan is not necessarily a pro-tax policy, but rather a “pro-taxing the rich” policy, which may turn out to be a very different animal in the midst of a severe economic crisis. It is going to be interesting to watch the nation’s reaction to the likely forthcoming Republican campaign to oppose tax increases on only the wealthiest Americans on the “principle” of opposing taxes generally. With this in mind, it is worth noting that even in April of 2007 – a little bit into the collapse of the housing market but certainly before most Americans were aware of the depths of the coming economic storm – Gallup reported that 66% of Americans felt that upper-income people were paying too little in federal income taxes, 66% percent felt that money and wealth in the country should be more evenly distributed, and more respondents agreed with the statement that “our government should redistribute wealth by heavy taxes on the rich” (49%) than disagreed with it (47%) ). Support for redistribution seemed to have dropped a little bit in   taken in late October 2008 during the post-Joe the plumber heat of the presidential campaign, but it would be very interesting to see where these numbers are today. If any other Arena contributors or readers have more recent figures on these types of opinions, I hope they will post them."



How would you frame it?

Good morning all. Welcome to Arena Live. If you'd like to make a comment, write your name in the appropriate box and send along your thoughts. We can't publish all comments unfortunately and we can't publish those without a name attached and we can't publish anything that includes trash talk. With that in mind, have at it.



9:07
Fred Barbash-Moderator -  And here's what Arena contributor Greg Dworkin had to say: As a pediatrician, I recognize that health reform is about cost, quality and access (and, I would argue, public health for planning, surveillance and prevention.) We really still don’t have details, but it’s clear that in order to be able to afford universal care, someone’s going to win and someone’s going to lose. Should it be the more affluent that lose? Why not? Elections have consequences. What do “cuts to govt. health spending” mean? Not sure yet, but taking the dollars out of Medicare Advantage (NY Times) is a terrific start. And look to see a public-private choice mix in whatever does come out of Congress. Without that, we really haven’t made progress.
9:07
[Comment From Bickle]
It's a lie to say Obama is taxing the rich.
9:11
Fred Barbash-Moderator -  Arena contributor Dean Baker puts it this way: The proposal calls for using a variety of savings to cover the cost of health care, including taking away some loopholes from the wealthy. It's hard to have much sympathy for the Leona Helmsley crew who don't think that they should have to pay taxes.

As every serious person recognizes, the United States has to fix its health care system both to protect its economy and to fix the long-term budget problems that the Washington Post-Peter Peterson crew constantly whine about. President Obama is taking the first steps down the road toward fixing health care and naturally some people are going to be upset, but this has to be done.
9:13
Fred Barbash-Moderator -  And that illustrates the other "framing" issue. Is it "taking away some loopholes," or "raising taxes" or just eliminating earlier tax cuts?
9:13
[Comment From Koko]
I would like to see a two-tiered system where preventative and catastrophic coverage is paid with tax-dollars and everything else remains private. This reduces the burden on employers significantly.
9:15
[Comment From S Blonski]
Relating to Dean Baker, I think the whole situation is muddied up by a need for tax reform. If the government was truly for cracking down on these "loopholes" some affluent people take advantage of, the overall taxation of the wealthier might not need to be so disproportionately high
9:16
[Comment From Ian]
I worry that the policy of taxing the rich to pay for "this initiative" or "that policy" is a slippery slope. Is there a proposed expiration to go along with the proposed tax increases? If so, I find it easier to stomach.
9:17
[Comment From The Leprakan]
Bickle......who is rich? The idea is not to tax the "rich" it is to allow a poorly thought out tax cut to expire, and to allow the rate to return to where it was. Check out this website to see the potential effects of the Bush tax cuts and then look at the reality of what happened, it came true and then some.....http://www.cbpp.org/3-19-01tax.htm
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